Lance’s Foes???

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I’ve had the “pleasure” to listen to Greg Lemond, and his wife Kathy, talk candidly about their experiences with Lance and his posse. Some of the stuff has been published, most of it not. At the time, most of the stuff seemed almost impossible to believe.

Then the whole lawsuit about the triple crown $1,000,000 and the following Grand Jury investigation of Lance and the Postal Service team. I’ve seen Frankie Andreu a few times the last few years. Frankie is a great guy. A Midwestern guy. I would never think of talking to him about any of his experiences with the whole thing.

What sent me off on this post was when I saw that Velonews published an article where Betsy Andreu vented about the whole suspension of the criminal charges against Lance and a few other things. And on it is one of the most read articles. Obviously, she is pretty upset about the whole affair. It has affected her life dramatically. I felt badly reading the last statement she wrote – If I can add, I know to the majority of VeloNews readers I’m despised. I have said people’s opinions of me only matter because Frankie still works in cycling. I’ve been a very vocal critic not only of Lance but of drugs in sport, and behind the scenes, am doing what I can to help have clean sport in America. People are loyal to their beliefs and for those who hate me and don’t believe me, nothing will change that. Should it ever be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Lance used PEDs and that there was criminal activity, some people will still refuse to believe it. And there’s nothing you can do about that.

She is under the impression that the “majority of VeloNews readers” despise her. I hope that isn’t true, but it really doesn’t matter, it is her belief. And that belief makes her feel like an outcast in a sport that her husband has based most of his life participating in. That is sad.

I was looking for something on google and came upon this exchange between Frankie and Jonathan Vaughters, the owner, czar of the Garmin Team. I don’t think I ever saw this before.

It is an article from back in 2006 from CBC sports. Here is the link to the article. I’m not sure where the CBC got this exchange, but it seems pretty incriminating to all involved.

How much did Floyd Landis, in yellow, know about doping in cycling? Plenty, according to Jonathan Vaughters and Frankie Andreu. How much did Floyd Landis, in yellow, know about doping in cycling? Plenty, according to Jonathan Vaughters and Frankie Andreu.

In-Depth: Cycle of denial
Implicated on the Internet

An instant messenger chat between two prominent cyclists challenges Floyd Landis’s assertion that he’s unfamiliar with doping techniques
Last Updated Thurs., Jan. 3, 2006

An instant message between Frankie Andreu (FDREU) and Jonathan Vaughters (Cyclevaughters) the morning of July 26, 2005.

Cyclevaughters: frankie – hey – thanks for talking the other day

FDREU: no problem, where are you

Cyclevaughters: back in CO

FDREU: nice, I just got home, isnt’ it like 5AM

Cyclevaughters: sometimes i think i’m going to go nuts

Cyclevaughters: yeah

Cyclevaughters: it’s 5am

FDREU: I agree, I came home and the air conditioning is broken

Cyclevaughters: ouch

FDREU: did your kid grow twice it’s size in the two weeks you were gone

Cyclevaughters: yeah, his feet look bigger for some eason

FDREU: funny

Cyclevaughters: anyhow, i never can quite figure out why i don’t just play along with the lance crowd – i mean shit it would make my life easier, eh? it’s not like i never played with hotsauce, eh?

FDREU: I know, but in the end i don’t think it comes back to bite you

FDREU: I play along, my wife does not, and Lance hates us both

FDREU: it’s a no win situation, you know how he is. Once you leave the team or do soemthing wrong you forever banned

Cyclevaughters: i suppose – you know he tried to hire me back in 2001… he was nice to me… i just couldn’t deal with that whole world

FDREU: I did not know that

FDREU: look at why everyone leaves, it’s way to controlling

Cyclevaughters: once I went to CA and saw that now all the teams got 25 injections every day

Cyclevaughters: hell, CA was ZERO

FDREU: you mean all the riders

Cyclevaughters: Credit Agricole

FDREU: it’s crazy

Cyclevaughters: So, I realized lance was full of shit when he’d say everyone was doing it

FDREU: You may read stuff that i say to radio or press, praising the Tour and lance but it’s just playing the game

Cyclevaughters: believe me, as carzy as it sounds – Moreau was on nothing. Hct of 39%

FDREU: when in 2000-2001

Cyclevaughters: so, that’s when you start thinking… hell, kevin was telling me that after 2000 Ullrich never raced over 42%— yeah moreau in 2000-2001

Cyclevaughters: anyhow – whtever

FDREU: After 1999, you know many things changed. lance did not

FDREU: I believe that’s part of whey kevin left, he was tired of the stuff

Cyclevaughters: yeah, i could explain the whole way lance dupes everyone

FDREU: what abut GH climbing the mountains better than azevedo and the entire group

Cyclevaughters: from how floyd described it, i know exactly the methos

FDREU: explain that, classics to climber

FDREU: when did you talk with floyd

Cyclevaughters: i don’t know – i want to trust George

Cyclevaughters: but the thing is on that team, you think it’s normal

Cyclevaughters: or at least i did

FDREU: i guess. anything with blodd is not normal

Cyclevaughters: yeah, it’s very complex how the avoid all the controls now, but it’s not any new drug or anything, just the resources and planning to pull of a well devised plan

Cyclevaughters: it’s why they all got dropped on stage 9 – no refill yet – then on the rest day – boom 800ml of packed cells

FDREU: they have it mastered. good point

Cyclevaughters: they draw the blood right after the dauphine

FDREU: how do they sneak it in, or keep it until needed

FDREU: i’m sure it’s not with the truck in the frig

Cyclevaughters: motorcycle – refridgerated panniers

Cyclevaughters: on the rest day

Cyclevaughters: floyd has a photo of the thing

FDREU: crazy! it’ just keep going to new levels

Cyclevaughters: yeah, it’s complicated, but with enough money you can do it

FDREU: they have enough money. Floyd was so pissed at them this entire tour

Cyclevaughters: anyhow – i just feel sorry for floyd and some of the other guys

Cyclevaughters: why would lance keep doing the shit when he clearly has nothing to prove – it’s weird

FDREU: I know. me to. they all get ripped into for no reason

FDREU: he’s done now, thank god. but they will prove next year for Johan’s sake that they are the greatest

Cyclevaughters: and then lance says ” this guy and that guys are pussies”

FDREU: they won’t stop

FDREU: I agree

What is weird is how these guys talk about getting on the wrong side of the Lance. As if it’s matter of fact that it isn’t a good thing to have happen to you.

I have no personal experience in any of this. But it makes me wonder why all these guys would go out of their way to just make trouble for themselves by lying? I see no reason why Tyler Hamilton, Floyd Landis, Emma O’Reilly, Frankie’s wife, etc. would lie under oath just to make their lives miserable.

I am sick of the whole thing really. Our legal system and maybe even our sports governing body don’t have a means to deal with the subject properly. So I kind of wish it would just disappear and we could just write it off as a dark era of the sport. But that doesn’t make the people that were directly affected, and are still affected, have closure. Those are the people that I think got the raw end of the deal. The innocent bystanders that got caught up in the whole mess and became some of Lance’s foes by default.

24 thoughts on “Lance’s Foes???

  1. Charles Pelkey

    I have to admit I am tired of the whole thing, too, but I would really like to see it eventually resolved.

    As for Betsy, she may or may not be despised. I really like and respect the woman. She has stuck by her guns for more than a decade and is not shy about telling the truth. Sport, politics and life in general would do well if we had more people out there who are willing to forget the consequences and call things as they see them.

  2. Joe Christian

    Very interesting read. Thanks for posting this. At the end of the day ths whole affair is a loose, loose thing and I agree, I wish it would all just go away. Then maybe we could get back to focusing on what is wonderful about our sport – riding and racing!

  3. jamie morgan

    My opinion: Trek, Nike & Oakley are deeply involved. Way too many doped cyclists coming out of Trek to be innocent. You can affect an improved cycling: stop marketing Trek in your adventures and sport.

  4. Ab Normal

    I recall years ago after reading LA’s first couple books thinking “this guy’s crazy, a sociopath, and so is his mom”, but I loved his hellbent for leather, disregard for the hierarchy racing style. It soon became apparent that LA was a opportunist to the worst degree, a thug. If one could no longer bring anything to his table they would simply be disposed of (often with an enemy’s face), and if the poor sod dare cross him, his flying monkeys would wreck the poor bastards character and bank account. LA has been a skid mark on our sport for far too long, and make no mistake, the sport here in the states would have chugged along in obscurity just fine without him, just as it had prior to the LA era. Now the multi sport world has to contend with him (again), and he’s already starting to cause problems, check out recent post race thug like attitude at half ironman.

  5. Roberto

    I don’t hate betsy, and I don’t hate Kathy either, though i’m not the biggest fan of her husband. I also really don’t give a damn, if Lance doped. I already know the answer to that question, and it really shouldn’t matter. The whole thing got started, because someone who shall remain nameless, discovered why the Euro cyclists were so superior to American cyclists, and decided to beat them at their own game. Plain and simple. Betsy thinks we should have no doping in sport, and i’m all for that. But all the rest of it, is nothing but angry character assassination. Lance could be a bit overbearing, and he did something wrong, so now they’re out to get him. I can’t say I agree with people doing that.

  6. Doug P

    Amazing mental gymnastics! The Lanzfanz dogpile on every rider suspected of or caught doping, screaming for their heads, and post unending nasty comments about dope and dopers, but when the Great American Hero is involved, all of the sudden, voilá, we “don’t care”! Doesn’t all that pretzel logic give them a headache? But don’t worry, that foreign guy got punished, so the sport is clean now.

  7. BikeRog

    I would like to see this entire issue go away too. And as time passes, it becomes more and more difficult to believe that the truth will see the light of day and the issue will be “resolved.” What will probably happen is that this will begin to be seen as a dark era in the sport’s history–much like baseball’s steroids era–and people will move forward from there.

    I’m hoping Pelkey is correct and there will be resolution to all of this mess, but I really don’t believe that will happen. ::sigh::

  8. Christopher Clark


    Everyone knows Lance Armstrong is a cheat and fraud, plain and simple. To advance and coverup that fraud he engaged in criminal activity and has hidden behind cancer victims.

    Lance Armstrong has met his match in Betsy Andreu and she will be vindicated and in fact has been vindicated to anyone who has been paying attention in the least.

    Certain people who were Armstrong’s teammates on USPS have an obligation to speak up if they want cycling to be considered a legitimate sport. Right now, it is not legitimate sport due to people like George Hincapie who don’t want to speak about the past, a la, Mark McGwire.

    Greg LeMond’s prognostication about Lance Armstrong being the ‘greatest fraud’ in sports history is correct. He is also correct in that Armstrong is a sociopath.

    The truth is out there and will come out in spite of people like Andre Birrote.

  9. channel_zero

    The thing about VeloNews is it’s a mouthpiece for the UCI’s/Wiesel’s view on EVERYTHING.

    Tan’s setup questions are all myth-sustaining falsehoods. Another awful commercial disguised as an article was attributed to Zinn giving Specialized some good PR after some anti-competitive litigation.

    VN is not a reliable source of information unless you like pretending. It’s a shame people still read it.

    I will not let my kid near the UCI’s version of the sport because of the VN editorial slant and for the simple reason USAC is run by Weisel, the guy behind the Armstrong myth. I advise other parents to do the same, always.

    Ride a bike for fun and a personal challenge, but don’t enrich USAC/UCI doing it.

    Keep up the good work Steve!

  10. Skippy

    What an eye opener if the blood percentages mentioned are true ?

    Tired of the relentless follow up on the decisions made which i virtually predicted to Charles_P. in dec 2011 ! Fact is nothing will happen until mid 2013 , IF THEN ! USADA is going to go nowhere and thus Lance will sleep easy whilst the legal team are on standby .

    How does the Frankie & Vaughters exchange get into the public domain ? Sad to think private chats will bite your ass 5 years later ! Was any of this relevant then , or will it add fuel to chat forums which are currently lobbying Obama with 140 or so angry Lance haters ?

  11. H Luce

    I’ve got the solution: Make blood doping legal, give every rider in a race a pre-and post-race blood test, determine hematocrits, and then rank the riders using blood doping against each other, and the riders not using blood doping against each other – so you have two races and two sets of riders, doping and non-doping, and non-doping riders aren’t competing with doping riders but with each other. I’d suggest different prize lists as well, and handicapping the doping riders’ results according to hematocrit numbers. Voila! Problem solved…

  12. Fixie Biker

    It’s not just those close to him that can get the wrath. What was the name of the old British guy who messaged Lance through twitter years ago telling him to come clean and ended up with his own email address in the public domain and Lance getting all his fanboys to hammer the hell out of it?
    Touchy touchy!

  13. jp

    I think most of this was published in “From Lance to Landis” which has rung pretty true with what has happened since it was published. my understanding was that this was more or less a reprinting in english of the LA confidential. I think we all knew this all along. I remember back in the mid 90’s having aconversation or ten with a LA Espoire who was a close training buddy as well as a former Olympic coach about some of the things going on at the OTC and about using EPO, and this was pre-Festina affair.

  14. Ryan

    I don’t know anybody that follows the sport at all who thinks Lance raced clean. I also don’t know anybody who cares that much anymore. If it was just Lance doping, then yeah, it would be a bigger deal. A doper beat a bunch of other dopers. Oh well. It would be nice if they were all clean all the time, but they aren’t. I still enjoy watching these guys race and am ready for the Lance thing to be over. I think the bigger problem comes when we start thinking that some of the riders are finally racing clean and others aren’t. I hope they can all get together, all admit doping (I’m sure there might be a few who haven’t) and then all agree not to do it anymore. A fresh start is in order. This will also probably never happen but it would be nice.

  15. MarkT

    There will be a new generation of dopers when there is a new generation of dope.

    Just wait, as science develops new drugs and gene therapies that provide a competitive edge for athletes and see that those will be used under the radar while tests to detect them are yet undeveloped.

    Human nature.

    Just as there are doctors/scientists dedicated to helping sick persons there are others who use science to improve on the health/well being/performance of the human being.

  16. Skippy

    Well this blog has been well received on CyclingNews Clinic ! Starting at about 2200 comments in US Prosecutersetc , the next 500+ are directed at Steve ! Of course Steve will be able to tell from his Blog statistics that CNF/mushrooms have been visiting !
    You could say i am just as naive , since i also was unaware of the fallout from the reported Frankie / Vaughters discussion !
    Using alias and no doubt untraceable Ip’s the thugs at CNF /mushroom farm enjoy exercising with jumping to conclusions , shifting rocks looking for hidden agendas , etc !

    Sad to think that they consider themselves ” Fair minded , Intelligent , respectful and articulate ” , explains the lengths they go to hide their true identities !

    Earlier i saw a suggestion of allowing ” like to race against Like ” by H luce ! Are we now to see the racers wearing tabards proclaiming their choice and then go home and await a later broadcast of the ” Determined /Adjudicated Winners ” by the media ?

    Paul & Phil would have a field day with describing that scenario ! Even if Lance was to have doped , as an example , would he have started wearing one set of colours and Evans and Cavendish wearing other tabards so that the General Public could see which competition they were racing ?

  17. RadRenner

    Betsy Andreu was more than right about the legion of Lance Apologists who have flocked to the message boards to vilify her and Frankie in support of Lance. They did they same to Greg & Kathy LeMond, assigning all manner of strange motivations to them as to why they would attack Lance. For years we saw how LA attacked anyone who doubted him, and everybody bought into it, including me. But the stories kept coming, the evidence grew, and I, like many, began to understand what I had not wanted to believe. Now the chickens are coming home to roost, but strangely, Lance Apologists haven’t changed their tune. In fact they’ve only become shriller, more vitriolic, and myopic beyond comprehension. We’ve seen these LA’s go from excuse to excuse, never pinning the blame where it truly belongs. “Euros hate Lance/America”, “He’s passed every drug test”, “How can you trust a liar?, “He/she is just jealous”. Now the excuses have changed, but the blame is never his. “Lance is helping to cure cancer”, “Lance had to because they were”, “He just beat them at their own game”. Now Lance Apologists just want the whole thing to go away. No admission of guilt, no apology; nobody was wrong, so nobody has to be sorry. Sorry, but I’m not playing along this time. Lance, and his still-believing fans, have to come clean and admit they were wrong. It’s the only real way forward. The truth shall set you free.

  18. jpete

    well-said rad. i think there are a lot of people who did not have a dog in this hunt who have been damaged like mrs. andreau, for just being honest. If nothing else, decency would dictate that apologies are owed. some have had their reputations irreversibly wrecked. or we could all just wish it away. I am sorry, but I agree that there needs to be amends made before progress can begin to take place.

  19. ave

    Yep, Armstrong doped and won against all the other dopers.
    So he was a better cyclist, no question.

    The problem is that he is lying about it. And going around the media like the cancer HERO. He might end up as the president. Would be a worthy successor of Bush that’s for sure…

  20. fatchance

    great dialog, thanks for making it happen Steve.

    I stopped reading velo news the day I heard Charles P. “left”, and frankly, it looks worse in the rear view mirror.

    bump to RadRenner, solid commentary.


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