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Okay, enough of this stupid shit that has been going on since our election.  I can almost not stand the news on a daily basis.  If you are comfortable with what has been going on, then you must either be an ass, arrogant, or ignorant.  Or all three. I guess, after reading Rod’s comment, total lack of concern could be an excuse.

I heard that Muhammad Ali’s son was held up at the Fort Lauderdale International Airport by immigration authorities.  Do you understand that?  Muhammad Ali’s son, who is Muslim, and an American, with a US passport, was detained returning from Jamaica with his mother.   The guy is a millionaire, inheriting a huge amount from his father’s estate.  And, once again, an American.   And his issue was his religion.  We can not tolerate this.

Now our immigration problem.  I’ve been looking around about immigration and the majority of our illegal immigrants work in agriculture.  The numbers vary, but up to 78% of farm workers in many states are undocumented immigrants.  And we don’t have enough.  

Please feel free to comment here about your experiences of having bad experiences with undocumented workers.  Jobs that you’ve lost, crimes against you personally. Any bad experience that you’ve personally experienced.  And use your real name when you comment.

I travel a ton and interact with lots of different people.  I’ve never had a bad experience or know of a crime against me, by an immigrant.   The “illegal immigrants” I’ve had the pleasure to meet, have been super nice, polite and, I think, add to the ability to live comfortably in our country.

Plus, who out there thinks building a very expensive wall is going to address the immigrant issue one bit? Anyone? 20 billion dollars well spent?

Mr. Trump is calling the deportation of immigrants a “military operation”.  Huh?

I don’t personally know a person that would like a job that is currently being done by a illegal immigrant.    Feel free to comment about the job you’d like to be doing, except for so many immigrants doing them.

We, here in the US, have many problems.  But the stupid shit President Trump has been addressing aren’t those problems.

Transgender kids.  Anyone out there had a problem here? Other than the kids that are struggling experiencing this?

How about dismantling the EPA?  I sure don’t like clean air or water.   Or all other environmental regulations.

How about not allowing certain press to attend daily briefings at the White House?  Or this “fake news” rhetoric?    I don’t think that Mr. Trump understands the need for press in our society.  If he is so worried about fake news, then he should just stop talking so much.

Americans, historically, have taken pride in being fair.  And treating others fairly.  At least trying to.  We’re doing neither now.  Just because we were born here, doesn’t make us entitled to treat others badly. Especially poor people, with little options.

Don’t be leaving comments about sticking to cycling here.  We all have a personal mandate to speak up for those that don’t have that ability.   President Trump isn’t doing that.  He is doing exactly the opposite.  He is a horrible reflection of what a true American is all about.

What he is trying to do, so far, isn’t what needs to be addressed in our country.  It is embarrassing on so many levels.  More than embarrassing, it is scary.

Want this job?

156 thoughts on “Enough

  1. Here we go again

    I picked apples alongside migrant workers when I was in high school to earn some extra cash for stupid teenage stuff. If we were dependent on nonimmigrants to harvest our crops apples would be $15.00 each and asparagus would be unaffordable to all but the billionaire class.

    There was a study that the parts of the county that most opposed to immigrants are the places that have the fewest. Where there is a higher concentration most people don’t really care.

    What a mean, vindictive and uncaring and we are becoming.

    1. Mike Rodose

      For those who think illegal immigration doesn’t have a negative impact on US employment and wages, here’s just one document that might be worth reading.

      A vulnerable, but key sector of our labor force is comprised of “low-skill” US-born citizens. In this case, the impact on low-skill black men and women is investigated. Yes, illegal immigration has a negative impact. This is from 2008 – immigration has increased since then. Also key to note is that immigration is not the only cause for this sector’s downturn, but it seems to be a key part.


      I completely believe immigration is essential. I prefer responsible immigration and trade policies to make it happen better and faster.

      1. thomas prehn


        Actually the report does not come the conclusion that “illegal immigration has a negative impact”. Some of the panelist make that point but other show that immigration has a positive impact on the US economy.

        I am glad that you are so concerned about low wage earners of color though!

  2. Hemi

    I like you & enjoy your blog but respectfully disagree. What you just called me is a prime example of liberal hypocrisy. “We are better than that”. I bit my tongue for 8 years, worked, paid taxes & accepted the President. Liberals always seem to have an internal itch that they just can’t scratch. The election of Trump didn’t cause liberal hate it just exposed it in my opinion. Posts like this just keep stirring the pot. I still love you man……

    1. James Stout

      You haven’t really addressed (or even mentioned) his substantive argument here . Well done formpayinf taxes under Obama. Now please continue doing your duty as a citizeb and oppose infringement on basic rights under trump .

      1. Martin

        “Formpayinf” Really? Your post is nonsense, at least put some effort in if you feel the need to weigh in.

    2. Brian Davies

      The pot needs to be stirred. Every day, for the next 4 years.
      His chief advisor was the head of Nazi news source.
      His head of education is a rich idiot with no experience, that just asked if children should get lunch.
      His vice president thinks that gays can be “cured”.
      He is trying to get rid of the EPA.
      Every new edict he throws down is more childish/bullying than the last. What good does taking away protections for trans students do? Why abolish the ACA, without a replacement? Why detain foreign nationals, from ANY country?

      As for “biting your tongue” while Obama *actually* improved the state of our country – do tell what things upset you. Job growth? Gas prices dropping? Improved relations with most of the world? Or is just that he’s brown, and that makes you angry?

      1. Bryan Barber

        Many white people voted for Obama to help bridge conflicts between white and black in our country. Whether or not this was Obamas intention, he failed miserably!
        Massive humanitarian failure in Syria.
        Obama care is a massive failure! Everyone’s premiums have gone up substantially except for those with pre-existing conditions and those who didn’t have insurance to begin with. That is unsustainable. If you’re a white person and you speak out against Obama you’re immediately branded a racist. So, White people bite their tongue.

  3. Steve Tilford Post author

    Hemi – You don’t have the luxury of comparing Mr. Trump to past presidents. You have the obligation to compare Mr. Trump to his actions. And how they align with yours.

    If what he has been doing, aligns with how you think a president should act, then that is one thing. If you disagree with his actions, then that is another.

    He is trying to set a new precedent on how our elected politicians can act. Making law that isn’t legal. Making statements that aren’t true. Many things that go against my personal morals. Forget his political alignments. It’s his actions that are deplorable.

    1. SB

      Steve you just contradicted yourself in 3 sentences.

      “He is trying to set a new precedent on how our elected politicians can act. Making law that isn’t legal. Making statements that aren’t true.”

      – I want him to set a new precedent because I don’t like what previous Presidents have done. It’s ok if we disagree on that.
      – “Making law that isn’t legal” – what does that even mean? Presidents don’t make laws, they can only enforce what the Congress passes. Are you talking about Exec orders? Every President has done that and you well know it. I get it, you don’t like that he is enforcing laws that others ignored.
      – “Making statements that aren’t true” well hey you got him there… Trump is clearly the first politician ever to fib a bit… come on dude, it’s ok to disagree with him but to say that he’s the first President who ever lied or distorted the truth… ha!

      Hey, disagree all you want on the substance but please try to have some maturity and perspective on history here. There are a lot of people who are fed up with the politician class doing whatever the hell they want, and ignoring the clear will of the people. Enforcing laws, for example. Don’t like the law as it is? Fine, lobby your congressperson. But the President swears to uphold ALL the laws.

      1. Steve Tilford Post author

        SB-Yeah, maybe I don’t understand the difference between executive orders and law. Seems like he doesn’t either. And that is his job. The courts know the difference. They rule and he starts name calling. And when executive orders are treated like law, by ICE, then you have problems like Ali’s son had.

        Lying. You are using the same argument as always. Compare Trump to Trump. Not to past presidents. Even morons can tell he is full of shit.

        Enforcing the laws? There are tons of laws that aren’t enforced. How about the speed limit? Ever got a ticket for going 4 mph over the speed limit on an interstate? 9 mph over? Not me. The same with immigration. We need a certain amount of workers. Our agriculture industry will collapse without them. We’re not documenting them. Do you think that there is a system in place to document 11,000,000 people currently? I don’t think so.

        Maybe he should work on setting up that system instead of trying to hire 10,000 more ICE employees, which, won’t be possible unless they lower their hiring standards and don’t train them appropriately.

        ICE is currently 1,500 employees short. They have the resources, they can’t get the people. Now try to add 10,000 more of them to that equation. Probably the reason the National Guard “rumor” started. Bet that is what those guys signed up for.

      2. Bill K

        I’m trying hard to think of one thing that Trump has told the truth about, besides winning the election I’m sure that there are a few floating around out there. To be generous, he must have a 95% untruth rating.

      3. wallymann

        “But the President swears to uphold ALL the laws.”

        except those laws that 45 doesnt like or conflict with his desire to profiteer from the office of president.

      1. Steve Tilford Post author

        David-What do “conservative Christian morals” have to do with what is going on? Does that explain what Trump has been doing the last month +? If so, I don’t have a clue, nor do I want to, have any idea what the initial question means.

      2. Rick

        Right, because conservative, Christian values align with a man who brags about grabbing women by their genitals. Just like Jesus.

      3. Brian Davies

        Yeah Steve – what about assholes that base all their major decisions on a really old book of fiction, that are, pretty much NEVER moral, or in line with said book of fiction?
        Alternately, what about good-hearted all-American racists, bigots, and misogynistic scumbags? And pedophiles?! They’ve got things in common with the Prez – what about their thoughts and feelings?!?!

  4. SD

    My entire family immigrated here legally and went through the steps, took the time, had to wait, and go through the proper channels to become LEGAL citizens of this country. Why does the left think its okay to just hand out citizenships because someone is willing to will work?? We all work. Go try to obtain citizenship in another country and tell me what its like. Give me break.

    1. Steve Tilford Post author

      SD-Do you think that is an option currently? Do you think your family could immigrant here under today’s circumstances and live here legally? How about if they are from Syria? Or even Mexico? What might you do if you were born in one of those countries? Anything different than the people from those countries are currently doing?

      1. JP

        So what are we saying to our immigrant workers if we aren’t willing to pay them a fair wage to pick apples? Allowing someone to be here so we can benefit from their willingness to work at a wage legal residents won’t sounds really bad, even worse than paying $15 for an apple. The market and technology will work out the wage/technology and the cost of an apple. (or whatever service illegals are performing)

      2. SD

        Yep. My cousin is “hoping” this will be the last year of the legal immigration process. Active green card, working. So, yeah. The only difference Steve is that we don’t come from a targeted terrorist state or religion. Think about it. There is a legal process, use it or go back!

    2. KrakatoaEastofJava

      Make it easier and faster to come in legally…like it was when our ancestors immigrated. See? Problem solved.

    3. Nancy

      You can see the problem in another way. The government doesn’t issue enough visa for seasonal workers that are needed in agriculture and the employers can’t find enough Americans for these jobs. The solution found was to hire undocumented workers temporally but it became permanent.

  5. Hemi

    FYI I didn’t vote for him. I didn’t like him but I liked his message. I voted 3rd party. I was surprised as anyone he won. He is now the President of this country like it or not. I like the VP a lot. I like Trump’s family. I like a lot of his cabinet choices. Hopefully he will be positively influenced by these people. The country was way out of balance in my opinion. Unfortunately it took an asshole to win and hopefully do that [in my opinion].. Karma can be a bitch sometimes. I worked, paid taxes and social security for 5o years. My dad received a Purple Heart in WW2. My son was a Marine Captain and did two tours in Iraq. I respect and honor our military and law enforcement. I fly the flag right side up at my house . If all that makes me an ass, ignorant or all three who has the problem? I would have just kept my mouth shut and read all of the comments that agree with you as usual, but when you start throwing darts at me personally that’s enough. I’ll keep my mouth shut in the future if that helps.

    1. Steve Tilford Post author

      Hemi-Do you see his actions being influenced, so far, by his family or cabinet choices? I hope not, because, if so, we might be doomed.

      We have many people that would govern our country without being an asshole. But, I can live with an asshole.

      What I have a hard time with is the lying to the public, uniformed decisions and being just plain mean. It reflects very badly on all Americans.

      1. William Comer

        So Steve,

        Once again you refer to him being mean or saying mean things? Where was your moral outrage at the hollywood elites calling him “President Agent Orange” and other hateful names at the emmies? That is just one example.

        I’m proud I voted for pTrump and I hope every illegal alien (not undocumented immigrant as you liberals refer to them) criminals are rounded up and removed from this great country.

        I fully encourage them and would love to have them here through the legal channels.

    2. bz

      I have noticed that one common thread found in talk shows, blogs, social media, etc is when people begin to militarize every issue generally they have no idea what the topic is. Its a weird tangent I don’t understand.

  6. El Tejan

    “American, historically, have taken pride in being fair.”

    That’s a nice yarn, but it’s not quite true. Historically, this country was founded on unfairness. Unless, you were a white land-owning male.

    This country wouldn’t have become a world power without the ownership of some people by other people. So fairness is a bit in the eye of the beholder.

    That said, I agree with much of what you say.

  7. mike crum

    your post today was your opinion.. 318.9 million people living here in the USA I imagine all have their opinions too.. next..

    1. daveeckstrom

      Well, I have my opinion, for what it’s worth, and It lines up pretty well with Steve’s. This is not Repub. vs. Dem. thing. As someone who leans a bit left of center, having Reagan and the two Bush’s as my POTUS never made me feel really great, but they were the president and that was that. They governed relatively sanely, supported a free press and allowed the long-term professionals in the government to do their jobs. Trump is a totally different story. It’s almost like everything he’s doing is planned out to be against our ideals as a nation. Or he’s just an out-of-control narcissist who’s being played by Steve Bannon. This is the more likely scenario and if that doesn’t scare you, I don’t know what will.

      1. Bill K

        Trump reminds me what it would have been like to have Joseph McCarthy as President……Very similar personalities. Very similar methods.

    2. thomas prehn

      I think it is Steve’s opinion that of those millions of us who are appalled by having a president that is so… (fill in the blank…), those of us that are not pleased are not going to wait 4 more years to make sure everyone knows.

  8. Lance

    One of the first things all dictators have done in the history of the world is silencing and eliminating the press. This is what he is attempting to do.

    1. Steven Cate

      Add attacking anyone who opposes them verse addressing the real issues their opposition has raised.

    2. Mike Rodose

      Lance – Yes, but a true dictator actualy controls all or a majority of the press.

      A dictator doesn’t have to fight the press at all – the press is under orders and little clashing occurs. It is a machine for propaganda (aka fake news) and becomes a sycophantic echo chamber without critique.

      That is not what we have now. Thankfully, big media has been caught cheating, lying and being overtly partisan. Giving debate questions to their favorite candidate is just one recent, glaring example of how public trust is lost. And if your candidate was given the answers and you don’t care, then you’re a cheater and endorse cheaters. Like a cheating bicycle racer…all good, no worries because I liked that racer!

      I think the media battle with the current white house is more reflective of a democracy than the past administration. It felt very authoritarian with Obama and the media…being lectured to, limiting our language, defining approriate humor, condescending newspeople and celebrity fools. Any other opinions not shared by Great Leader and his media army were obliterated. By those same “journalists” we entrusted to inquire, check and report on any and all elected officials and their cronies.

      1. Mark

        Just look and see what the unchecked immigration is doing to all the countries I Europe. Causing massive problems.

      2. Bill K

        Mark…What “massive” problems???????…More Europeans die falling out of bed that are killed by “foreigners”.

      3. JP

        Ask a European citizen. Many of them don’t like Trump, but they are unified in their dislike for the open borders. “It’s a Big problem” I’ve heard from family and co workers living in London and Germany.

  9. Rod Lake

    For the record, I’m not responsible for helping elect the guy. But chances of trying to understand why people support him pretty much went out the window after the first paragraph. Going the Hilllary route and, putting everyone in a big ol basket of deplorables and then asking for an open discussion–good luck. There are people like SD who have compelling argument. He doesn’t sound like any of the three things you described. And BTW, SD, congratulation to you and your family. I really do understand your frustration but we’ve all got to stop labeling everybody and find some common ground. At this point, that divide seem depressingly wide. But calling half of America names, isn’t really helping. You have always been the most open minded person and respectful of others and I have alway loved and admired that about you.

      1. Mike Rodose

        Asses, arrogant or ignorant. Just ask Steve or start your own name-calling for people you disagree with.

  10. Glenn

    Fake news? Didn’t the liberals cry fake news first? Then they found out they lost and now when conservatives cry fake news it is wrong? Talk about hypocrisy. Free press is one thing, but when there are incidents of intentional fake news by the main stream media, then I don’t disagree with some outlets being left out of a press conference. I believe the previous President actually labeled Fox News “not a news organization so much as it has a perspective.”

    Matter of perspective, I suppose

    1. Steve Tilford Post author

      Glenn-Are you going with this “fake news” deal? Really? Do you know how many examples I could give you to counter this belief? Tons. Fact check some of Mr. Trumps examples. “Enemies of the people” is his description. Enough said.

      1. Glenn

        Steve, You brought it up in your blog, so I wanted to express my opinion on it. It happens on both sides, I agree. The left’s claims that the right is crying foul is disingenuous. Don’t post about it if you don’t want the debate.

      2. Mike Rodose

        Steve – Shutting down a debate by responding increduously like an authoritarian is a big problem in our immature society today. Like your “enough said” and, must be “an ass, arrogant or ignorant” comments.

        And you’re doing it here. By daring people to disagree with you, then name-calling when anyone actually does, or tries to. That’s bullying.

        And bullies are assholes with loud voices, but no credibility. So I know you’re not a bully – probably just really angry and lashing out at others with dfferent opinions.

      3. ScottO

        Glenn and Mike
        This specific issue is not a “debate” – there is not another valid side to the “fake news” and “enemy of the people” issue.

        There is no moral relativism about how “all politicians lie” – Trump is a glib liar, he lies casually, he makes shit up during interviews and press conferences and doesn’t care when he’s corrected. He repeats things he hears that sound good to him without curiosity as to their truth. He doesn’t care about the truth.

        There can be no common ground when facts don’t matter.

        This is my big problem with this administration – policy needs to be grounded in facts, not opinions, and the administration is trying to grind truth into dust and turn all debate into popularity contest about “beliefs” – belief is for your house of worship, not for policy making.

        There is no freedom without truth. Do you care about the constitution? The dudes who wrote it were scientists, their faith lay with truth, science and progress. If your candidate acts like that doesn’t matter, their and your opinions don’t count.

    2. Mark

      Trump is embarrassing our great country. I was hopeful he would calm down and do the job we elected him to do but his pettiness, thin skin and massive ego just won’t allow it.

      1. Glenn

        Aaron, I have not been duped. I think for myself (and look at all sides of a story). I do not like Trump’s attitude, commentary nor all of his policies and especially his bombast. However, I think if you look at the media coverage objectively you will see a clear bias.

        Take for example several articles a few weeks ago that stated that Trump only selected countries (for the ban) that he did not do business in. Clearly, that was false. Had the editor of those media outlets put an ounce of actual research into the issue they would have seen the truth quite quickly.

        It happens on the right as well. Media has turned into a ratings game and only exists to drive an agenda (Fox News is complicit on the right as well). That agenda is to spread falsehoods about issues to drive this “resistance” to the right.

        Now, I do think there is some good journalism out there, but the internet society we live in has almost drowned it out.

    3. T.Lyle Ferderber

      Glenn, saying both sides do it can be a false equivalency: the right wins this one. You reference Obama: if you had been branded as a non-citizen, Muslim, non-Christian for hours of coverage, as well as “terrorist fist bumping” your wife, you too might call Fox “opinion” and not news. And when “liberals”, of non-Trump voters said something was up with the election, well, they may be right: the investigation has already uncovered enough for Flynn, Manafort and Page to resign and it is just getting started, in terms of Russia’s participation.

  11. SD

    Steve – I have one family member going through the process right now, legally, she has one more year to go and carries an active green card and is working. My family didnt come from a known terrorist safe haven, but thats another topic in and of itself. My point being is that if every single one of my family members can do it legally why cant everyone else? Don’t act like every person of middle eastern desecent or religon that is trying to become a citizen of this country is being denied because it’s not true. I have a mosque down the street with 100’s of attendees daily, not all are citizens yet but are going through the process legally and arent getting thrown out of the country.

    1. Nancy

      His executive order was throwing out of country people that went through the legal process such as permanent resident, visitor student.

  12. Tom Petrie

    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for showing the courage to write this post. It increases the admiration I have for you. I believe Trump represents an existential threat to the republic. However, I think it’s a mistake to bad-mouth Trump supporters because it’s counter-productive. Calling some one out as an ass, arrogant, or ignorant will only serve to entrench their position. Trump has been supremely effective in cultivating a base who feel that they have somehow been wronged by Obama and that he alone can save them and “make America great again”.

    I’m as angry as you are, but I think a more effective approach will be to constantly shine the light on Trump’s sickening agenda. Ask the questions:

    – ACA – I believe Obama failed because he tried to compromise. He (and we) should have demanded that universal health care be the right of all citizens, in exactly the same way as is universal public education. Want to go to a private school? No problem. But it’s your right to get primary and secondary education on the public dime. Follow the money. Who benefits from the situation as it is (and which will certainly become worse as the new administration dismantles Obama’s better, but compromise-flawed, ACA)? The insurance industry, attorneys, the pharmaceutical, and medical industry administration. Insurance is a multi-billion dollar for-profit industry. The way they profit is to collect premiums and pay as little as possible for health care. Follow the money. We have the most expensive health costs in the world. Where’s the money going? Who’s paying the lobbyists?

    – The Wall. Billions of dollars. An embarrassment that poisons our relationship with Mexico and makes the United States an international joke.

    – Mexicans, Muslims, refugees, transgender children, LGBT, people with brown skin. Bring ’em on. Trump, in a manner typical of bullies everywhere, attacks the weak. It serves his purposes to demonize people who are “not like us” because it distracts attention from the even more onerous business he’s pushing through behind the smokescreen of daily outrageous behavior (e.g., gutting the EPA). America is a country that is make up of refugees. Anyone who is so desperate that they have to flee their country is going to work like a dog to make a good life for him or herself in the new country. Labeling immigrants “illegal” makes it easy to to demonize them and to perpetrate police state actions against them. If you don’t want “illegal” immigrants, make it easier for them to gain entrance legally.

    This is getting windy. Sorry. The point I’m trying to make is that we shouldn’t get sucked into divisive name-calling. It simply reinforces the divide and so serves Trump’s purposes. He is not the buffoon he appears. He is a dangerous man with a transparent agenda.

    Ask questions. Ask Trump supporters to defend their support of his actions with facts rather than knee-jerk “Obama bad, Trump good” ripostes unsupported by fact.

    Get active. I write every day to Congressmen, Senators, Governors, and others in the news. Join Indivisible.com or any of the other emerging political action groups.

    Let’s make America a country we can be proud of.

    Keep up the good work.

    1. Rod Lake

      Tom: you lost me right away saying Obama’s mistake was he tried to compromise. Talk about revisionist history. If ever there was a bill that was devoid of any compromise is was the ACA. Do you not remember the “elections have consequences” remark? How about, pass it first, read it second from Nancy Pelosi? I’m not arguing against the concept, but saying there was compromise is flat out a joke. As for the rest I’m to lazy to get into.

      1. Jim

        All we heard for 8 years was that we (GOPers) have a plan for the health care insurance issue but nobody asked us. Well, none of them could ever explain what that was at the time and they are now proving that they never really had a plan.

      2. Larry T

        You claim “If ever there was a bill that was devoid of any compromise is was the ACA.” Really? Where were you when the “public option” part was ditched? If that was left in we just might have joined MOST (all?) of the other civilized countries in the world with universal health care. I realize you might fear facts, but Google the world’s healthcare quality ratings and then compare them to % of GDP spent on healthcare. Then explain to us all how Trump and Co. will Make America Great Again….we’ll wait.

    2. Beth Wrenn-Estes

      Been reading the whole thread today and I have the same emotional responses (and facts too) to what is going on today. I liked what you said Tom. I agree with Steve on almost every single thing he said but I have started doing active political actions – writing, calling, marching and being an example of acceptance and inclusitivity. Trump and his administration have racist tendencies. You might think that America 1st will lead us down the right path but it won’t – history has show what isolationism does. Hatred of others – coached in what’s best for our country – just read the news were violence against people is growing. The worst in people is being encouraged to come out. I look at people as to their character and what I see in Trump, Bannon and yes Pence are not the characteristics that I admire. I think we all need to wake up to what is happening – slowly, subtly happening. I know people don’t like the Hitler-Trump comparisons but I hope that people see the rise to power of the Nazi’s in the same light as what is happening in this country. Are we heading for a dictatorship – turning in our neighbors, hating people who aren’t like us (white and Christian) and remaining silent until it is too late? I am an emotional person. I am a liberal and I am not excusing all the faults of previous administrations. Politicians lie – it’s how the job works BUT follow the actions – that is where we all should be afraid.
      Steve keep on blogging – commenters I am glad to see such a civil tone even when you don’t agree with Steve’s posts – gives me hope and hope is what is important – hope that those that are willing to speak out against injustices continue to do so and that persuasive debate is still alive and well in America.

    3. Larry T

      +1 The whole “Orange Julius Caesar” thing was brought about by white nationalism and xenophobia. Just read the stuff Steve Bannon writes or listen to what he says. Long-term (assuming these kooks don’t start WWIII) our prospects are good as these white nationalist folks are going the way of the dinosaurs. They’ll make a lot of noise as they near extinction but the black and brown folks who replace them will generally be progressive when it comes to politics. Short-term, those who oppose the so-called president’s policies need to organize and make themselves heard in resistance, so the 4-year term (assuming he doesn’t get impeached, but then we end up with a guy who wants funerals for aborted fetuses) does as little damage to the USA’s image as possible. It’ll be a struggle, but the country will survive this fiasco.

  13. Gilbert Ramirez


    I wouldn’t consider myself a “Tilforder” but I do read his blog on occasion. I’m an over-the-hill (wannabe) road cyclist. I don’t want you to consider my response an attack or a hate inspired response. I applaud Steve for this blog post, because I feel the topic needs to be discussed out in the open more. I know Steve probably wrestled with posting this type of content on his blog because he knew he might lose followers.

    So, regarding your responses, I’m confused and I’d like to understand your perspective more. Firstly, I don’t understand your use of the term “liberal hypocrisy.” For me, hypocrisy means saying one thing then doing the opposite. You’re saying that you bit your tongue for 8 years (we’ll take that at face value), so now “liberals” should do so as well, otherwise they are hypocrites? So, you didn’t have to bite your tongue for 8 years if you disagreed with the elected leadership. In fact, as an American citizen it’s your right, if not your responsibility, to speak out against agendas and policies ushered forth by the elected leaders. I can assure you that many people on the right voiced their opinion of opposition to Obama from the beginning of his presidency. It’s not too difficult to find images of mock Obama lynching photos from 2008. Again, please don’t think I’m attacking you personally.

    Your statement, “The election of Trump didn’t cause liberal hate it just exposed it in my opinion. Posts like this just keep stirring the pot” is also confusing. I think the key word here is “hate” which means different things to different people. I would argue here that “liberals,” or progressives, proactively seek to provide equal rights to gays, blacks, Muslims, transgendered people, women, Hispanics, and basically people that are disenfranchised…which is why “liberals” tend to vote for social programs designed to aid or prop up the standard of living for all Americans. By the way, granting equal rights to underserved groups does not take away your rights. I just don’t see how you can say that these “liberal” ideas are construed as hate. It seems to me that you are saying that “liberals exposed their hate” by voicing their opposition to Trump’s policies and his agenda. This is not hypocritical of liberals. They are not saying one thing and doing the opposite. Liberals are fighting for the same things they have always fought for, but Trump is now dismantling many of the social policies put in place over the last 8 years–which is fine, he is our elected leader; but, don’t construe opposition to his agenda as hate. I’ve heard this argument elsewhere, and in my opinion it is a slippery slope argument used to justify a reactive measure of censorship.

    Liberals, like myself, tend to be the party of inclusion (all races, genders, religions, etc.). I draw the line when your ideology discriminates or otherwise seeks to take away the rights of others. Conservatives will call this filter a hate act against them…which is dizzying.

    Voicing an opposing opinion is not necessarily hate speech. You don’t have to keep your mouth shut.

    We disagree with the current direction of the country. That’s fine. I’ve shifted my investments appropriately. I’m sure we’ll both be fine.

    Regarding the military sacrifice of your family members, I thank them. They’ve contributed to the foundation of a great country. I wish more people would feel compelled to do the same. Voicing your opinion doesn’t make you an ass. Wrapping yourself in your family’s military’s sacrifice or the American flag in attempt to somehow validate your argument makes you an ass. I rarely play my military Veteran card because I don’t feel it deserves any special privilege but I’m going to play it now. I don’t hate you. I value your opinion. But, don’t do that.

    1. Bryan Barber

      So you’re playing the military vet card in order to tell someone else not to play the military vet card? Is that not hypocrisy?

  14. Robo

    The concern over “Illegal Aliens” has always struck me as misguided. Aliens (and let’s be honest: we’re primarily talking about Mexicans here) are the symptom, not the disease. Mexicans aren’t coming here for the weather – they’re coming here to find work, opportunity, and the ability to provide for their families. (Yes, yes, I know there are exceptions – drug dealers, gang bangers and what not, but I would be willing to bet this is a very small % of the total.) And when you stop and think about it, this is such an incredibly American ideal – work hard, sacrifice, and take care of your family. We (and particularly conservatives) should be applauding them – they’re anathema to the welfare state. But I digress; my point is that Mexicans will continue to come here as long as there is economic opportunity in the form of employment. So, in my view, the disease is the employer, not the Alien. If you want to slow the space of illegal immigration from Mexico, you should more vigorously target their employees.

    But I think that would cripple our economy. Employers hire illegals for one of two reasons: 1. They are trying to exploit cheap labor and circumvent laws/regulations/taxes that they would face if hiring documented immigrants or U.S. citizens. The 2nd, and I presume most common, motivation for employers to hire illegal aliens is simply supply and demand: Employers in certain industries need a quantity of low-wage labor that there simply doesn’t exist in the United States. So the better solution is to pursue immigration reform. A new visa platform for common laborers would be ideal. This would provide a legal means for immigrants to enter the country (and have their backgrounds checked, their activities tracked, etc.) and would provide our employers access to low-skill, low-wage labor (which can be regulated and taxed). This would end the charade of employers knowingly hiring illegals who present phony documents.

    And lastly, I’ll say this: the labor market for illegal aliens is a black market – an alternative to the ordinary labor market. Have you ever purchased bike parts off Criagslist or Ebay? Did you do it because you were trying to save a buck or two? Or did you do it because the part you need/want isn’t available through the primary market – out of stock, out of production, etc? Either way, you may have paid less than market rate. You probably avoided taxes. You diverted profit from the manufacturer (admittedly though, probably not an American company), the distributor, the shipping firms, the retailer and all of their employees. Many times buying on the black/secondary market works out well for everyone. Many times it doesn’t and you find out why you got such a screaming deal. You get what you pay for. The same thing occurs in the secondary labor market.

    1. CD

      Misguided….spot on. I believe the conservative Cato Institute published a study about the risk of an American being a victim of any immigrant on American soil. Even when population numbers are factored in, the study found an American have an enormously greater chance of vein the victim at the hands of another native-born American that any immigrant.

    2. carlos

      Right on Robo! My father in law raised 6 kids and had a decent life working as a meatpacker. The company realized that it was ripe for dumbing down. The union went on strike for two years and lost. Company brought in migrant workers with little education and no English and paid them close to minimum wage and no benefits. Their families get fed at the local interfaith kitchen. Healthcare is the ER and charity clinic. Company effectively being subsidized by charity and government grants. Gotta love the MBAs. So it goes.

  15. Dave M

    Anyone who doesn’t understand the importance of a free press in a democracy, and thinks that a free press is the “enemy of the people” is, IMHO, an idiot.

      1. Chris Clark

        Just as you are Mike, bought and paid for!

        Do you want to dispute the accuracy of the following two factual reports?

        McConnell vowed to obstruct EVERYTHING Obama did from day 1 and that this obstruction and Obama’s failure would be a measure of success for the GOP.

        2nd, Dick Cheney told Patrick Leahy to “go fuck yourself” on the floor of the Senate.

        Sentient, fair minded people know what the GOP is about.

        Now the GOP has unapologetically given us a degenerate.

        As far as I’m concerned all of the GOP can take Cheney’s advice.

  16. donkybhoy

    America is owned and run for big business. Since WWII it has been. You dont have a choice, these people the Military Industrialists, the Koch Bros and others bought the politicians a long long time ago.

    The need to keep Americans in constant fear of threats, mostly made up is in order for them (the super rich) to do as they please. Trump is another puppet president who will be allowed to indulge himself while others make laws to suit their purposes for enriching themselves even further.

    I fully expect a lot of blood to be shed soon in America, probably starting in Chicago and then spreading. There will be a lot of innocent people getting killed in American towns, because of their colour, religion or they are anti Trump. It could cause a civil war. There are a lot of angry people out there with short fuses and little patience.

    Stay safe y’all.

  17. Trumpmania

    Dow is closing in on 21k!!!! Great advice on the market crashing Steve!!! My brokerage accounts are glad I knew you had no idea what you were talking about!!! Making my bank accounts great again!!!

    1. Larry T

      Trumpmania – PLEASE make a post here one or two days before the Wall Street bubble bursts (again) so we can all be smart like you and avoid the next financial meltdown by getting our retirement funds out just-in-time. Thanks in advance!

  18. Andrew Ross

    It’s worth noting that regardless of the disagreements here, nobody has defended the detention of Muhammad Ali’s son. If this isn’t an example of our government condoning bigotry, then what is it? Is this what America is really about?

    1. Jack-john

      It will be interesting to see how this develops once the facts are in. It’s also worth noting Mr Ali is a member of a hate group according to the SPLC . I wonder if that is a factor in his detention?

    2. KrakatoaEastofJava

      That was clearly targeted. To send a message to Muslims that this is not a place they should be traveling to. Loud and clear.

  19. Bolas Azules

    Tilly, for a guy who left school to ride a bike and depleat your trust fund, you make a lot of sense. “Tilly 2020!”

    The amazing thing is, why can’t we get one payer health care?

    1. Bryan Barber

      Because a huge amount of Americans prefer to make their own health decisions and would rather the government stay the fuck out of it.

      1. Tim

        It sounds like you probably have a good health insurance policy through your job. A lot of people don’t and are at the mercy of the market, which can be downright cruel if allowed.

  20. Barb

    Trumpet is a childish moron whose agenda is being underpinned by the equally moronic religious right. That’s why they’re not allowing muslims back in. Personally, I’ve seen that these people work hard, and are paying into the system, even if they aren’t documented. It is the very rare (we’re talking a statistical nth of a percent) who are lawbreakers, and we have that in our population of American citizens too. I see America as being in for the worst four years of our history as a country for the next four years. All those people who voted him in thinking he was going to help the middle class are going to be way worse off than before, so next election Trump will be out, along with his psycho constituency..
    This pretty much says it all.

    1. CD

      The religious right have subscribed to “fake news” for decades. It’s all rooted in their belief of creationism over evolution. Science has provided objective evidence of evolution, yet fundamentalists/evangelicals deny evolution. It isn’t much of a stretch to extend the denial of objective evidence to other aspects of human activity, hence their overwhelming support of the current administration. Morals, ethics and the Constitution no longer mater to these people that claim to be deeply religious. It all about power and nothing else.

      1. Barb

        Isn’t creationism annoying? LOL Not to mention the idea that science will be rejected and suppressed. That’s what they did in the Dark Ages.

  21. Jimmy

    FUCK TRUMP. That is all that can and needs to be said in a comment thread.
    What a sweet day it will be when he is finally impeached.

  22. Dan

    I don’t think anyone reading your blog is going to want a job taken by illegal immigrants. Cycling is a high middle class and up sport in the US.

    1. Steve Tilford Post author

      Dan-I am pretty sure that most Americans don’t want the jobs taken by most illegal immigrants. Forget cyclists.

      A couple years ago, there was a huge hail storm in Topeka. Nearly all the roofs were ruined. These migrating workers, following the hail, came through and roofed. I’ve put on a few roofs. It is hard work. In the summer it is super hard work. These crews, in my neighborhood, would finish a roof at noon, go next door and start the next. The temperatures were over 100 degrees for most of that time. I have no idea how they did it. Most, if not all, were Mexican.

      1. David Randleman

        Steve, I’m totally with you. I think anyone who supports DJT’S completely un-American bullshit needs a reality check. 45 looks more and more like Hitler every day.

  23. Barb

    The issue with muslims that I see happening all over Europe is that it isn’t the original immigrants who are causing the issues, it’s the second generation. They aren’t “assimilating” anywhere in Europe that they’ve been allowed into. If Muhammad Ali’s son is of that same mindset, maybe that’s why they’re not allowing him back in. And before everyone starts attacking me, consider this: Remember your adolescent rebellion period? In Europe, it’s the second and third generation of muslim immigrants who are rioting, raping, bombing etc…and it could happen here too. Parents come in peacefully, but many in the second and third gen want Islam to dominate. It’s inherent in any religion, just look at the Crusades for example. Religion has been a huge cause of conflict for thousands of years, and people are living in a naive reality if they think it’s not going to be an issue in America. Just look at our new government as a perfect example.

    1. KrakatoaEastofJava

      Barb, you’re getting a bit self-righteous again. If people would just listen to YOU, they’d Allie OK, right? Problem solved, right? Religion is the demon, right?

      1. Barb

        I’m citing facts, it has nothing to do with me or what you consider being self-righteous…, all you have to do is read the news from a variety of sources (I’ll repeat that, from a variety of sources -not just from bike websites) and the “real news” becomes evident. Do you see any old people in this video? and NO, this is not the only source for this information.
        “Even their parents are alarmed”
        It’s only a logical idea, that it could happen here. You need to take your head out of the bike stand for a minute and look around.

      2. Barb

        Here you go, do you think the parents are out doing this shit? This is SECOND OR THIRD GENERATION.

    2. Larry T

      Are white supremacist bombings, murders, etc. OK? Why do you single out Muslims as people to be feared and discriminated against? Trump got elected by playing on irrational fears like these. I’m amazed at the times people who make claims like these answer “Why YES!” to the question, “Do you get your information mostly from Fox News?”

    3. carlos


      have you actually spent some time in Europe? What you write is totally misinformed. You don’t have a clue.

  24. Bill K

    If I was traveling to outside our Country, I’d be embarrassed to admit that I was American. The man is just so embarrassing to listen to. I’m just hoping that he can be removed from office (one way or another).

    1. Larry T

      You nailed it! Back when W was prez we introduced ourselves in Italy as Americans…to not frowns, but not smiles either, until we said, “But we’re against Bush” which then brought out the smiles…and more. When Obama was prez (or Clinton before) the response was overwhelmingly, “We LOVE your president!” and this was during the time they had “Bunga Bunga” Berlusconi who was Trump without the nukes. We’ve already received the “WTF? How could you elect a guy like this?” emails from our Italian friends and we’ll have to face them soon with, “Well, like you didn’t vote for Berlusconi, we didn’t vote for Trump.” But we’re stuck with him just the same. Gawd help us all.

  25. Over Trained

    Actually, I’m pretty sure the American voters are the ones who said ENOUGH. Enjoy the over correction that is the Trump Administration. You can always go crying through the streets and break some shit to get your point across. That’s seems to be making real change.

  26. Barb

    I just read the article and don’t understand the outrage. Ali’s son was detained for 90 minutes, and what does the fact that he’s a millionaire have to do with anything? Lots of millionaires got what they have through illegal means. And how else are they going to screen people coming in to see if they’re terrorists? And millions of people from the middle east hate America now, can you blame them? The people that flew the jets into the World Trade Center easily got into America and went to flight school in Florida.

  27. conrad

    People don’t understand that agricultural field work is actually skilled labor. It is also physically difficult and doesn’t pay well. If you think these crackers screaming about immigrants taking jobs are 1) willing and 2) able to do this work, you are incredibly mistaken. I couldn’t believe that some of these farmers are Trump supporters. How dumb could you possibly be.

    1. Mike Rodose

      Cracker is an offensive word, you racist. Lose the anger, lose the name-calling and someone might actually listen. Probably not though.

      1. David Randleman

        Easy, snowflake. Did any of your “cracker” ancestors get put in chains on account of their “crackerness”? Didn’t think so. Maybe lose the fake outrage and try actually listening. People are pissed for good reason these days: a fascist narcissist, with the assistance of our long time enemy, has hoodwinked the people to takeover the highest office in the country, all with the stated aim of eviscerating the proper function and purpose of government and also to enrich his political supporters. If you don’t recognize that the situation is dire, then you’re the problem. Now go ahead and defend Trump and tell us how he’s not that bad.

      2. conrad

        I am as white as they come. German and Scandinavian. Some would define cracker as a white guy with no rhythm. That could be me? I define a cracker as racist white trash. If you are still on board with Trump at this point, that is what you are.

  28. Guillermo Garibay

    I agree with you 100% on this post. My disagreement and disgust with Trump as President has nothing to do with party affiliation. It has do do with his complete disregard for all those that voted against him (who happened to be the majority by 3 million). He continues to push a racist agenda towards Muslims and Mexicans with his Muslim travel ban and call for a military type deportation operation against undocumented immigrants. He is all about slashing our health care with no back up plan, At a time when climate change is wrecking havoc, he continues to be the Denier-in-Chief. Remember his promise of coming up with a plan to defeat ISSIS in 30 days. That 30 days has come and gone. Rather than pay attention to intelligence briefings, he spends his time chastising the intelligence community for looking into how his buddy Putin has influenced the last election. As dictator-in-training he now seeks to suppress those press organizations that are critical of his administration ( another word for telling the truth). He lies to us, the American people daily about anything and everything. This is a time in this country where we as citizens need to speak up as Steve as done. If we do not then we are guilty by our silence and complicity!

  29. Clifford

    Thanks, Steve.

    Trump is not all that smart but he’s not all that dumb, either, and large sectors of the populace are now playing directly into the hands of this fascist regime. They’re tired, they’re angry, and looking for someone to blame. I can only help that the intelligence community (“Deep State”) exerts a degree of influence to get him and his cronies out, because I can’t see the fragmented Dems doing it alone.

  30. DR

    What is wrong with a pathway to a valid worker visa for those who are employed, paying taxes and do not have a criminal background? This doesn’t mean that criminals who are here illegally cannot be deported, they should be. It’s just that this administration’s actions just lack any humanity. Also, we need to be targeting criminals and terrorists based on their actions, not their religion. I grew up playing soccer at a time when US born players were a distinct minority. Through this I met people from many countries and many religions and they are all wonderful, loving, respectful people. We all have the same dreams whether we have been in this country for days or centuries. Trump, in making a single religion the scapegoat is just wrong and it’s not the country that the founding fathers envisioned. Get mad, go vote in 2018 and 2020.

  31. SD

    Anyone in this comment thread spent time in Poland or Hungary in the 70’s or 80’s?? If you havent, you have no credibilty to comment on fascism, communism, or an authoritarian government. You havent seen it, lived it, or even experienced it. Youve just read about it most likely. And you have no right to comment on the USA dream. Trump is running the country like a business and the shitheads that have not been working are now getting fired. If you think open border “lets be humanitarian first” is your idea of immigration policy. Be prepared to go the way of France, Germany, Belgium, Turkey. Good day

    1. conrad

      I thought Germany was actually doing pretty well right now. In WWII, not so much… I would love it if the USA could not repeat that error.

  32. Devin

    Most of the ag workers working for farms ranches and orchards of consequence are here through the H-2A guestworker program, that allows agricultural employers to hire workers from other countries on temporary work permits for agricultural jobs that last ten months or less. To bring in H-2A guestworkers, employers must first show that they have tried and are unable to find U.S. workers to meet their labor needs. Easy enough. Who calls the INS to report farmers that hire illegally? Other farmers that comply with the current program. Your domestic produce largely comes from immigration law abiding farmers, and still will.

  33. steve

    i get my political and life advise from a dude that has never held a real job as far as i can tell. yeah, that is what i do.

    1. Tim

      It is “advice” not advise, and he probably works harder at what he does than you do at whatever it is you do.

  34. Robert Zimmerman

    Whine whine whine wait until they start drafting up your lil schoolboys to go fight some holy war! Big business has Always run this country I marched during Nixon’s reelection and before when The Body Bags were filling the west coast airports from Nam! Corporate Enterprise, Organized Religions, Mr Big Piggy Pig Men it aint never going to change Whaa Whaa. The Answer is Blowin in d Wind!

  35. SD

    Have you been to Germany in the last 12 months? Your WW2 reference is about as ignorant as you could get. But then again, everything you think you know you probably learned from books.

  36. Mark

    Anyone who thinks any politician or political party can fix their life is mistaken. Accept Jesus Christ today as Lord and Savior. Tomorrow may be too late.

  37. Front Page Cycling

    It’s a pleasure reading this, thank you for NOT sticking to cycling. I think too many bloggers, youtubers, etc avoid the topic so as to not be controversial and lose followers.

    The scariest part is that there are people that can’t see what we’ve descended into and how bad it really is.

    P.S. wear a helmet.

  38. Tim

    I live in California and have had many interactions with illegal immigrants — generally laborers. They have all been positive. They are hard working people.
    However, there are an awful lot of people in our country who are not working and could be. Maybe some of them should be out in the fields picking vegetables or pruning fruit trees. It might be the best thing that ever happened to them. Suppose you lose a hundred pounds and start feeling better about yourself. I know not everybody could do this, but necessity is the mother of invention as they say. I am going to keep an open mind on this as it appears that is the direction we are headed.

  39. Glen A Miller

    Couldn’t agree more Steve Tilford.
    I’ve got all the same complaints and then some extras. Most people say I have no right to complain because I don’t vote but I tend to go along with the late George Carlin’s philosophy in that those who vote someone in office actually have no right to complain, leaving those that don’t vote all the right in the world to.
    As for Mr Trump, the man’s been caught in so many lies within such a short stint in office without the slightest mention of impeachment it boggles the mind and is a huge slap in the face to much more loved and worldly past leaders of ours. Case in point, former President Clinton. He got takes over the coals for something that should’ve been handled in-house meaning within their family and not the political supreme Court’s with the inevitable impeachment over one lie that had nothing to do with worldly matters, not like all the controversial crap swirling around this bafoon.
    I swear when he was running for office it was actually a joke but as he gained popularity he figured ‘why not’ and went for it. He was a huge joke surfing the primaries and he’s an even bigger one now in office and I don’t understand why no one’s doing anything about it.
    I realize I’m not a political person and don’t know much about how this crap works but, if the public vote one IN office, why can’t the public vote someone OUT!? Am I that stupid or does this make too much sense?

  40. Bryan Barber

    Right-on, Tim!
    I live in Southern California along with 1,000,000+ illegal Mexican immigrants. That’s about 10% of the entire country just in Southern California. Southern Californian’s have a higher quality of life (“live comfortably” as Steve said) than the rest of the country does in good part to a black market of cheap Mexican labor. We have cheap houses, cheap food, cheap cleaners, cheap landscapers… of course we don’t want that to go away, no one in California does. (Or Texas)
    The problem is, since we are a country that balances laws and liberty, these illegals are very vulnerable because they don’t have the protection of the law.
    I work in residential construction which is massively comprised of illegal labor. When you employ illegal immigrants you pay them cash(under the table). This means, no workers comp, no insurance, no payroll tax and nobody to complain about it. Even if you decide not to pay them. About 10% of illegals have college degrees. About 40% have high school diplomas. Typically, no money, no education and no skills puts them in a very difficult position to assimilate in our society.
    Most of the people I’ve worked with in the last 20 years are Mexican. More than half of my riding friends are Mexican. Most illegal immigrant Mexicans are great fucking people, Most Mexicans are great fucking people! But none of that justifies are broken immigration position. Illegal immigration is a bad thing for our country. That doesn’t mean people who are here illegally are bad people. It just means they broke the rules to get here. And as fair minded people it goes against our form to allow this to continue. It just doesn’t make sense!
    Can we at least start by agreeing on deporting illegal immigrants who are also convicted felon’s?

  41. Bill

    First of all less than 12% work in agriculture. The rest work in construction, retail, manufacturing or where ever they can find work. Secondly, everyone one of them is committing a crime because they use fraudulent documents, including SS numbers and DL’s to get employment. Its a widespread use of identity theft.
    Over 1 million of them are convicted of serious crimes.
    They burden our hospitals and schools. When your kids teacher is spending the bulk of their time dealing with kids who don’t speak English, then the rest of the kids are getting shortchanged on their education. I saw this first hand with my own kids.
    The line about them paying taxes is also overstated. In fact in California, over 1 million illegals are non-filers, which means they haven’t paid their taxes. They know the scam about declaring maximum deductions and then don’t pay what is owed. They don’t care because they’re using someone else social security number. Hope your number isn’t getting used when it comes time to get your benefits. You’re going to have to prove the money was contributed by you.
    Mexicans remit 25 Billions dollars a year back to Mexico, which is money not spent in our economy. That impacts job creation.
    Finally, we have a system in place for legal immigration. People wait for years to come to this county and now cannot because we have to slash legal immigration because 12-15 million people jumped to the front of the line.
    Either we are a country of laws or we become no better than the corrupt countries in the world where law enforcement is bought and paid for.
    I hope you realize that Mexico is not only shipping their own people North, but facilitating the movement of thousands of illegals from other countries. There are currently thousands of Haitians in Tijuana trying to get across. Guess who let them stay? Mexico, which isn’t even bothering to enforce their own immigration laws.

  42. Steve Tilford Post author

    Bill – I disagree with you on many levels. Our agricultural industry would fail miserable without “illegal immigrants” working.

    Here’s what I found, without much looking –

    In terms of overall numbers, The Department of Labor reports that of the 3.5 million farm workers in the U.S., over half (53 percent) are illegal immigrants. Growers and labor unions put this figure at 70 percent.

    And –

    The chief actuary of the Social Security Administration claims that undocumented workers have contributed close to 10% ($300 billion) of the Social Security Trust Fund.

    Those numbers don’t jibe with what you posted. Whatever your issues are, it is a fact that we, as a country, need these people to work here. No one else will do their jobs if they are deported. It isn’t that hard to understand.

    1. Bryan Barber

      Agro moved to California from the Midwest because of cheap labor that were treated nearly as bad as slaves. Now an industry has grown in California that depends on cheap labor that can’t afford to participate like normal Americans. This is crazy disfunctional and has put thousands of hardcore American independent farming families out of business to boot.

      1. orphan

        No agro moved to California because of the longer growing season and the aquifer for watering the crops.

  43. Steve Tilford Post author

    Bryan – I don’t really know enough about it to disagree. I do know that in California, there has always been “cheap labor”. And they grow much different crops than what we do in the Midwest. And that is the situation we currently live in.

    If you want to try to make the undocumented immigrants legal, then that should be the focus. But deporting them, when they are an integral part of the system is not prudent. Not for anyone involved.

    I was going to look up and state that independent farming families have been put out of business from corporate farming. But that isn’t the case. Here’s what I found.

    96.4 percent of the crop-producing farms in the U.S. are owned by families, and they represent 87 percent of all the agricultural value generated.

    So, you’re statement that agriculture has left the Midwest because of cheap labor can’t be true if close to 100% of the farming is done by family farming.

    It is an undisputed fact that a certain amount of immigrants are needed here in the US. To do the jobs that they are currently doing. Treating them like criminals and thieves is complete utter bullshit. That isn’t what they are.

    1. Bryan Barber

      I don’t have any evidence to back it up but I believe most of those families are multimillionaire mega farmers and the number of individual self sustaining family farms has been drastically reduced over the past several decades.
      You are absolutely correct no one is going to move their family from Michigan to a mobile home in California to pick strawberries for nine dollars an hour. If we could import a few million Chinese people we could build cars better than Japanese and cheaper and we could dominate the auto industry as well.

    2. orphan

      Steve your right but what you haven’t thought about is who owns the land they are farming and how much of the profit they are taking. The family farmer owns very little land now. They rent or share crop. a family can still survive by farming if they do it right. They need to farm about 2000 acres to afford the equipment that it takes.

  44. Rey Ellin

    I always loved your stand about doping, but this makes you even a better human. If americans (whites) knew what many imigrants do to work here. I worked in the fields in Calexico 25 years ago, I had it easy drove a tractor, the wotk there is so back breaking is nuts. The 4am start, 60 hr work week no overtime but at least you get a pee break.
    Most people don’t understand, that if you petition to bring a family member to the US the wait is around 20 years.
    Now the whole religion thing is insane, I’m very far from religious. But I try to get along with everyone. But blanket statemens are wrong and acomplish noghing. When you are a fringe group, for whatever reason. You have to take stand, because at firstvus the fringe group, then the famlies, after that friends and so on. The you reward, the ones that turn people in.
    Remember this was the same party(person), that obama was not a citizen. That he had fema camps, all the weapons were going to be confiscated and so on.
    I’m sure some are bitter that a robot is now working in a plant some were. No more public lynchings, or the not allowed signs. But that America is never coming back, Mayberry is dead get over it.
    Enough rant.

  45. JP

    Dude it’s not 20 years or even close to that. Stop the exaggerating. There is a legal process and it works. Follow it. I am married to, and have another first gen immigrant in my house. There are a couple of hoops to jump through, but it isn’t that bad. Too much misinformation passed around.

    Trump is married to a first gen immigrant!!!

    I sort of agree with the other stuff you said though

  46. chuck martel

    Steve says: “Americans, historically, have taken pride in being fair. And treating others fairly. At least trying to. We’re doing neither now. Just because we were born here, doesn’t make us entitled to treat others badly. Especially poor people, with little options.”

    Tell that to the native Americans.

  47. John Armijo

    Steve- if your idea of doing research for your facts is from the internet, you’re wrong from the beginning. Educate yourself. You tend to just focus and spit back information that you only agree within. Open your mind.

    Do us a favor and get a job and contribute instead of just taking and complaining.

    Oh yeah, before you assume you know me, I didn’t vote for our current president. However, different than you he won the election and we need to support the office and President Trump.

    1. Steve Tilford Post author

      John – Sorry if I disappoint you with my “uneducated” posting. Do you ever watch the news? Do you think the things that Mr. Trump has done the last month is presidential? I care less about your political view, the guy is not reflective of what we Americans deserve from a president. Even a bunch of Republican senators and congressmen have nearly jumped ship, which is almost unheard of this day and age. I predict it gets worse, not better. Maybe then you might take notice?

      1. Chapo

        Our country has been screaming for changes to the “same old” politicians in Washington and now that we have it they can’t handle the change. We weren’t on a good path and i’m willing to have an open mind here.

        The media at best is full of half truths and i am tired of being told how to think by them. We Americans deserve our laws to be enforced and not to be taken advantage of by freeloaders like you Steve.

      2. Steve Tilford Post author

        Chapo – I have to say I disagree with your comment on many levels. But, it is America and you can post what you want, as I can. I was just wondering about you last sentence. I was wondering if I know you? I assume not. Either way, that’s fine. Let me know what you think I’m doing that classifies me as a ‘freeloader”. Just interested in your qualifications for this. I assume you meant it in a derogatory way? I’m not pissed, just wondering.

  48. numbnuts

    all mostly hype and fear mongering… america makes a lot of money from both…

    without immigrants, who would work the farming jobs? americans won’t work for under 12 bucks an hour that’s for sure. Most americans can’t fartt without putting up a sweat.


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