This isn’t about Lance Armstrong

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Lance is racing in Crested Butte this weekend on his MTB bike. He could just as easily be racing up here in Northern Wisconsin at Chequamegon. Here is the article, with quotes from the promoter.

“Our thought was, like him or not, doping or not, allegations or allegories, the dude has done a ton for cycling and we wanted to basically to show our support,” said David Ochs, the local organizer for the Alpine Odyssey, which is part of the Leadville Race Series, owned by Life Time Fitness. I have to say the guy is completely off base with his rational.

I agree, this isn’t about Lance Armstrong, whether you like the guy, believe the guy, or even know his name. This is about cycling and the sport of bicycle racing. If this guy wanted to show support of the sport of cycling, then he would be telling Lance, politely, that he has a lifetime ban from racing bicycles and that since he is promoting a bicycle race, you are not welcome. He can still support Lance in any personal way he feels comfortable with, but Lance shouldn’t be racing his race.

I’m not a big rule guy in general. But, there are some rules that aren’t negotiable. This is one of them. When you have a lifetime ban in sport, then you don’t get to compete in sport any more. And when the participates that have such lifetime bans imposed upon them, don’t accept them, then it is the obligation of the promoters to tell them, sorry, you can’t compete.

The Chicago Marathon did just that. Actually, all sports that have signed onto the World Anti-Doping code don’t want these athletes. And cycling is one of those sports.

Tyler Hamilton rode the Mt. Washingon Hillclimb twice, while he was serving his 2 year suspension. And he won the Mt. Washington Hillclimb twice. Ned Overend, finished 2nd to him one year. Anyone now, think Tyler should be racing these races? Is Tyler any different than Lance? I think the whole thing stinks.

There are plenty of sports these guys can compete in. Most of the mainstream US sports, football, basketball, & baseball for sure. So, these spurned souls do have options.

Cycling is very unique in sport. Even though it is a big sport worldwide, the competitive aspect of it is small. It’s like a family. And when promoters, such as David Ochs, completely dis-regard the rules that we, as competitive cyclists, have agreed to adhere, then they damage the sport of cycling, not support it.

Nothing is stopping him from running with his friends on the beach.

71 thoughts on “This isn’t about Lance Armstrong

  1. Rod

    You are dead wrong on this one Steve. I’m not a Lance disciple by any means, but you cannot extend punishment beyond the defined boundaries. Lance cannot compete in sanctioned events. Period. By that definition, he can compete in unsanctioned events. You may not like it, but it is what it is.

     
  2. Bill K

    Has the Crested Butte race signed onto the World Anti-Doping code? Has Chequamegon?
    If they have, of course he shouldn’t ride. If not, it’s an “open” race, where anyone, and their uncle can ride. It’s almost as bad as trying to ban him from doing organized century rides.
    .
    I’m still waiting for the UCI to rule on this case, before putting Armstrong into the dust bin of history. (if they ever receive the evidence from the USADA)
    .

     
  3. Telford Crisco

    LA needs to show some dignity for the sport (all sports for that matter) and just quitely go away. Cherry-picking “non-sanctioned” events or those that don’t subscribe to the USADA code is bs. Any time I see his name on the results, I’m immediately going to be suspect – wonder if he’s running hot for that one?

     
  4. Rsteve

    If he raced against me in that race this weekend and beat me or won I would be a tad upset. It’s not even that he can race in this tiny race it’s that he will beat a bunch of other racers that are clean. He better not show up.what an ego to even think this is a good idea.

     
  5. Joe Beer

    Was Lance on the program for his Leadville win? Or the year he got 2nd to DW? How geared was Levi for his win? Or Floyd when he showed up? What about that Gila that Radio Shack raced, or the other smaller races they did in 08 and 09? I can wrap my head around these guys showing up in Europe, but coming over hear and showing up at races where 95-99% of the field is clean…how do we think about that? Is it different? Seems awfully shitty, right?

    I guess the right thing to do is to not support the promoters by not doing their events.

     
  6. Dennis C

    I believe without a doubt that LA doped, but a lifetime ban is ridiculous and will be overturned. He should be given a two year suspension like all other first time dopers. I dealt with arbitrators/third parties on a continuous basis before I retired. They are not going to accept a lifetime ban, period.

     
  7. doubleuc

    Here comes the ugly part of all this.
    JoeB has it nailed in the aspect of NOT supporting the event the promoter has allowed LA to enter.
    I’m SURE that this will have other “races” following suit. But people won’t do that…they simply dont give a $H#T.
    It should be quite clear that the “race” is going for the money rather than the integrity of the sport.
    I can’t really blame the promoter either, (not too much, even though I want too!).
    It makes business sense. It will be something for this guy to snicker at while he counts his money.
    The thing that gets me is this guy is giving LA a platform to “flip off” the USADA publicly for all to see.
    And he WILL profit from the throngs of people who will flock to see “the show”.
    Every “Cubby Dentist” who has an underused carbon fiber bike with Zipps & a power meter maxed @ 100watts
    will still want an autograph or picture with LA. Maybe LA should set up a booth and charge 50 bucks for a signed 8×10.
    Of course a dollar of the proceeds will go to his foundation

     
  8. Jack Mott

    Rod they were a sanctioned race, they dropped the sanctioning specifically to make a buck off the Lance Money Train. Except David Ochs hasn’t gotten the message yet about that train having derailed.

    It is a douche bag move by the race, in support of a douche bag person.

     
  9. Dennis C

    Do you know what effect the ban has had on LA ‘s relationship with the American People since it was announced ? LA now has 70,ooo more Twitter Followers. I went to the flagship Macy’s Store in NYC the other day, and LA Livestrong Nike Clothing is being sold as it was before. It is busy as usual for LA . Two Cyclists in the US matter, Greg Le Mond with old timers like me and the cycling god Lance Edward Armstrong. I strongly believe that he is guilty of doping, but I love the guy. You know why ? He chews up and spits out the skinny little cyclist haters and others who get in his way. He is a fighter.

     
  10. Ab Normal

    Again, the lifetime ban isn’t just about doping, LA has been a menace to the sport for a long time, a thug if you will, wrecking lives and characters just under the radar of the casual fan, that’s why those who pursue him do so with such vigor. As one who is barely a notch above the casual fan and a sometime promoter of a couple rudy-pu little bicycle races, I would be hard pressed (even if I had the funding) to bring LA to my events, yes in the short run it would bring out the casual spectator or two, but in the long run I think it would offend 95% of my field who showed up and dropped nickle to race. It’s just bad mojo and could potentialy hurt racer turn out, without racers one doesn’t have a race. LA needs to go back to Austin, put on his dew rag and quietly ride his Harley into obscurity, if that’s possible.

     
  11. Erskien Lenier

    If you drink coffee, eat other animals flesh, drink their bodily fluids, eat genetically modified food parts your not ‘clean”
    Lance has recently realized these things and gone “Frugan” (Fruit primarily supplemented with greens and veggies) He doesnt live in the past, why should you?

     
  12. chuck martel

    Alexandre Vinokourov recently won the men’s Olympic road race. Bjorn Leukemans is on the start list of the Belgian team at the world championships.

     
  13. doubleuc

    To say he is a fighter NOW is a farce.
    He had the perfect atmosphere to prove THAT and chose NOT to. How quickly “we” forget?
    To make that statement shows me that you have the yellow rubber bracelet on and have bought into the club.
    PLEASE don’t think I don’t see all the money he has given to cancer research…but what percent of that goes right back to him.
    Though ALL the money donated goes to the foundation (?) are you forgetting the “payout” from said materials.
    Don’t you wonder about sales from all NIKE crap and the money LA is getting from that?

    I’m thinking the “fighter” you see at this point is equalivant to those on Wall Street during the down turn.
    The legally well advised entrepreneur type fighter…no doubt. He is fighting for his money now…don’t kid yourself.

     
  14. VCScribe

    Vino and Leukemans served their bans, and as far as we know, neither were integral in a broad conspiracy to promote a program of doping in their respective teams.

    Frankly, I think it’s pretty pathetic that the Last American Hero feels he has to resort to riding unsanctioned charity events in order to continue promoting his mug to his lemming disciples.

     
  15. David

    I’ve been following pro cycling since 1969, when I fanatically read about Eddy Merckx winning every possible classification in that year’s Tour de France. None of my friends had a clue as to what I was so excited about. I was in NE France in 1976, and had to beg friends to travel a few miles to Geneva to see Van Impe, Zoetemelk, Poulidor and the peloton blow by the barriers just feet away – none of those friends were impressed. I was euphoric when Lemond won the Tour and later when Hampsten won the Giro – but, US magazines and papers didn’t even cover those historic events. Then came Lance. I now have friends who don’t even ride bikes who get together with us for Tour watching parties! Be as sanctimonious as you want about Lance – the fact that we’re having this conversation on a blog about bicycle racing in the US just proves what a profoundly positive effect Lance has had on cycling.

     
  16. Dennis C

    So, here is the bottom line, you are jealous of LA because of his success,fame and money, LOL. Are you also jealous because he has a large penis (according to the grape vine) and had bedded beautiful women too? Get over your jealousy and resentment, you will be much happier in the long run.

     
  17. Dennis C

    VCscribe, all doping is a conspiracy because the cyclist is buying illegal products or getting help from others (blood doping) from others. What is a big conspiracy ? I assume you mean that this is a whole or most of a team doping ? This is hardly new or novel in the sport of professional cycling either. If the UCI (or Armstrong himself) appeals the case to the panel of arbitrators, the lifetime ban is going to be laughed at by the arbitrators. I know what I am talking about. Before I retired, I dealt with arbitrators/third parties on a regular, almost daily basis. Arbitrators hate due process and disparate treatment violations. The cycling arbitrators have tended to bend over backwards to support the cyclists whenever possible. You need an iron tight case to prevail before these guys. Remember the idiotic arbitrator, who believed the Tyler Hamilton “evil twin defense”? Luckily, he was outvoted by the other two arbitrators. My prediction is that LA will get a two year suspension in the end. It is even possible that the arbitrators will throw out the entire case on due process, disparate treatment, and evidence problems (i.e. retesting urine samples, contrary to the original info given to cyclists).

     
  18. doubleuc

    LMAO…
    Your projection of simple matters is very revealing,
    and without question shows that I have just entered a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

     
  19. Dennis C

    David, you are clearly an older guy like myself. You recognize as I do that LA is the “tide that lifts all boats in cycling.” We have in this country cycling teams, bicycle manufactures, other cycling product manufacturers, bicycle lanes in cities, bicycle trails etc. I could go on and on. We have these cycling things because Greg Le Mond and more so Lance Armstrong layed the foundation in the US. The young guys posting on this blog had their cycling world handed to them on a silver platter, because of the work, sweat, grit, courage and accomplishments of Greg Le Mond and Lance Armstrong. In 1969, there was no cycling infrastructure in the US. The young guys, they just don’t get it.

     
  20. Just A Guy

    First, Steve, where did you get that photo? Did you take that? The very first thing my kid learned in design class was that you can’t just “Google Image” something, then put it on your site.

    I know you’re addressed this before, but I often see photos on your site that are clearly owned by someone else, with no attribution.

    Secondly, when Lance shows up this weekend on a Trek, with Trek plastered all over his body, will you still support Trek? Will you still call Waterloo when you need a new frame?

     
  21. Craig K

    “The essential feature of Narcissistic Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and lack of empathy that begins by early adulthood and is present in a variety of contexts”. This per the DSM-IV-TR. LA feels he can do whatever he wants, regardless of constraints/rules/norms of which others are generally expected to adhere. Wins the World Road Championship and disregards protocol in taking his mother to visit the Norwegian Monarchy. Not supposed to dope in professional cycling…, completely disregards the fact and leans on teammates to do the same. Asked/Allowed to present his side to USADA in a pre-determined manner, to which he agreed beforehand. He blows them off. Lifetime ban from cycling…, he blows that off, as well. LA, in my opinion, has consistently given the bird to anyone and anything that doesn’t work for his Lanceness! The only thing to be suprised about is if this behavior were to cease! 301.81. – Narcissistic Personality Disorder, check it out!

     
  22. channel_zero

    Joe Beer,

    Lance was the worst kind of WADA positive for his 2009 win at Leadville. USADA has stated plainly that his blood profiles have clear evidence of doping during his ‘comeback’ phase.

    I joined the unofficial/official newsgroup on Yahoo testing the idea of a 2013 entry a couple of months ago. The question of vacating his win came up and the answer was a resounding FU to anti-doping advocates.

    There is a delightful irony in declaring Dave Wiens 7-times winner of Leadville.

     
  23. Dennis C

    Craig K, my you are a clever lad. You found the manual that Psychiatrists/Psychologists use to diagnose mental illness and/or personality disorders. You opened it up and came up with this gem. Now, you can go back to your room and wait until your mom calls you for lunch.

     
  24. orphan

    No matter what side your on it’s lame for Lance to put promoters in this position. Dammed if they let him race and dammed if they don’t. Did you see all the hate over the marathon entry denial. It’s a tiny little mtb race that nobody even knew about. He can’t even let the smoke clear. I for one think the racers should protest at the start.

     
  25. Jeff

    Wow. I don’t get some of you guys. This is Tilford’s blog. It’s here for people to see what HE thinks of things. It’s not the dailypeloton forum. Yes, you can comment, but really don’t need to be telling him how to go about it. Picture rights? Who gives a rat’s ass. That’s like honking at a guy who rolls through a stop sign on your street, but you’ll do that all over town in other people’s neighborhoods. Everyone does that. He’s not Associated Press. He’s using the image to communicate a thought.
    The point was that while some people are doing something about cleaning up cycling, a promoter went out of his way to help Lance, who is currently banned from cycling, to enter a cycling event. I know. It’s not sanctioned. It would have been but that guy went unsanctioned to bring in Lance. That’s like teaching a class “about business ethics” and not necessarily about good business ethics, and saying, “everyone cheats at business and it’s good because they make money and create jobs”, saying Lance has done so much for cycling so it’s O.K. Maybe cycling shouldn’t be so huge but should be cleaner. I wouldn’t complain about that.

     
  26. Dennis C

    Orphan, soon you may have something to really complain about. I would not be surprised to see the Directors of the New York Marathon invite LA to race in their marathon. LA did a great deal to support NYC after 911. He is well liked in NYC. We like the successful, take no prisoner, overachiever types. Besides, it would annoy the LA Haters who live in the “flyover areas” and in the states shaped like boxes. Annoying these cycling rubes would just be an added bonus.

     
  27. Greg

    What did Lance do for the cycling world? Show the world how to win on drugs and be a big jerk while doing it?

     
  28. channel_zero

    Dennis C @ Sep 13, 2012 at 11:00 am

    I’m pretty sure the NYC marathon is run under whatever federation organizes marathon events for the Olympics. That means no Lancie for NYC. Frownie face for some….

    Lancie has been relegated to third-tier every weekend fun runs and dope worshiping bike races. It’s not going to pay his legal bills.

    BTW, for a guy with supposed genetic gifts for bike racing, he’s performing worse than Tilford at 10 years his junior when he’s off the dope.

     
  29. orphan

    Dennis I had you pegged from Texas but I see you speak for NY. Isn’t Adam Myerson from NY? I think he disagrees with you.

     
  30. Joe

    Steve,
    Your wrong on this one. Let him race where ever, and I would gladly line up against him. Maybe I could even hold his wheel for the first mile. Should he race as a professional? No! But he should be allowed to race just like the rest of us.

     
  31. workingthe climb

    Some of you should meditate a bit and disperse the gut anger. USADA has sanctioned Lance, stripping of his titles, his olympic medal (maybe).
    He’s playing by the rules. He’s played his hand, the USADA theirs …. and so on. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING preventing him racing in non-sanctioned events. That’s the rules. All of your harping about right and wrong, disappointed this, feel cheated, that …. is mere fog.

     
  32. Vincent

    A friend ask me to go to this race. In large part I will not because lance is there. I may never enter an event which he attends. I am sure Lance will not miss me but the promoter will and friends and others that feel like me.

     
  33. Dennis C

    The NY Marathon Organization will tell the federation to F&%$ off if they feel like it. The best runners in the world will still come to run. You don’t understand New Yorkers, they enjoy telling authority figures to go to hell.

     
  34. Pete

    I wonder if Steve were younger and could have done it Lances’s way I wonder what he really would have done. (private jet or diesel van)
    He still didn’t send back the Trek or comment on BMC.

     
  35. Dennis C

    Powerful forces in NYC will decide whether LA can run maybe even perhaps Michael Bloomberg etc. Mary Wittenberg is playing this one smart. She knows that the decision will be made by the shakers and movers. The NY Marathon is not until later in the Fall, usually the Sunday before election day.

     
  36. buck

    Pete, you are wrong!
    Steve was young, and did it the clean way. If he did what lance did he had the ability to win the Tour,be rich in dollars and poor in character.
    He ran a 4:16 mile on cycling training which not many world class athletes are capable of.
    If I were Steve I would hate these drug takers too. He was one of the clean guys that was robbed by the dirty racers.

     
  37. Jack Watts

    Hilarious that the Lance Apologist can’t stop hanging onto that ball…

    If a racer signed up for this race, they should be asking for a refund (since they signed up for a sanctioned race), and they should not be supporting this promoter. Anyone showing up to this race is just part of the problem.

     
  38. Rod Lake

    What I learned today: 1. Lance is rumored to have a big penis. 2. Pete has no clue about Steve; 3. “Rod” (if that’s his real name) and Rodlake disagree.

     
  39. Rich

    Its sad that there’s a cheering section made for these guys who have been banned, who no doubt come in to an unsanctioned race doped up to a certain level. “Once a doper always a doper” I believe this is true for most of them. Maybe not all but certainly most of them are going to edge up, especially after being publicly displayed as being dopers.

    What is upsetting is the 17 year old thats hanging with Lance, forgot the name. No doubt Lance is not racing totally clean for these races, I cant imagine he’d voluntarily be beaten in a bicycle race or Triathlon period…..

     
  40. Dennis C

    You also learned that LA may run in the New York City Marathon,LOL. By the way Sheryl Crow misses that big…..
    Also, I am 60 years old, but I wish I was young (who doesn’t) , but if you stay fit and get the blue pill from your doctor, it can be like you are 16 again. You are leaning so much today. Does anyone know if Viagra is a banned drug ?

     
  41. Dennis C

    Praise Jesus, Viagra is legal, I need to look into bike races for old guys now. You guys need to stop being so serious, add more laughter and humor in your lives. I wonder if LA has experimented with Viagra ?

     
  42. StreetUrchin

    Tilford’s a smart guy, he knows all you have to do is mention lance and he’ll get 40+ comments which is good for his blog. All LA supporters should read the Secret Race. In chapter 4 it tells how LA use to eat babies to get faster.

     
  43. Mike Rodose

    Length Armstrong can race unsactioned events. But the truth is evident and many have lost respect for him. His performances and results will be disregarded.

    Perhaps Lancer has more tweeting “followers” now. Irrelevant. That’s not the measure of a winner…it’s the measure of an oddity or a freakshow.

     
  44. Dennis C

    Mike, I think that there are many people including me who have respect for LA. I believe that he is guilty of doping and should be suspended for two years. LA was very supportive of NYC after the 911 attacks and helped the city. Lance was there for us and I am here now for Lance. You can love the sinner, but hate the sin.

     
  45. Jeff

    I say let him ride…Anybody actually read Judge Sparks ruling…most of the bloggers are spinning this information to suit…read it through…footnotes and all…regardless of the dismissal it may shock some to see that the court had many concerns to the negative about USADA…the term draconian mean anything or the fact, as Judge Sparks noted, USADA has targeted Lance Armstrong for prosecution years after the alleged doping violation…the issue of offenders recieving lessor sanctions in exchange for testimony…there’s more. Look it up…Lance is retired…let him ride!!

     
  46. Dennis C

    Jeff, I have similar thoughts as you do I think. The Federal Judge was correct in dismissing the LA Suit since all of the administrative processes i.e. arbitration etc. had not been exhausted yet. I have not read the whole decision, but a very good summary. The judge raised very serious concerns with due process and disparate treatment issues etc. My reading is that he was saying that if the due process violations etc. of concern to the Federal Judge are not cured during the administrative process, you (LA) can refile your law suit, and the Judge will address these issues. I strongly believe that LA doped. I also am tired of the lynch mentality on the part of many members of the cycling community. If he doped, he gets av two year suspension like other riders for a first offense. I don’t understand the haters. I am 60 and probably have a greater tolerance of sinners than some young people posting here. I have not led a perfect life and neither have most of my relatives or friends, LOL.

     
  47. Skippy

    USADA is doing such a ” shitty job ” that they banned a ” Para Athlete ” for buying a product of an inhaler producer that changed their contents !
    No wonder they use ” kangaroo court tactics ” to go after ” Tall Poppies ” to get a result !

    Until UCI rules on the saga and LA sticks to ” Non Sanctioned Events ” which USADA are not likely to turn up to , NO HARM DONE !

    Here in Austria there is a rumoured 35-50% of Shamateurs Doping ,. ” bragging rights ” seems to be bigger world wide ! Wonder if any of the ” racers ” will try not to tell their friends that they met him ?

     
  48. Jeff

    A very polarizing subject…I’m sure most of the comments that are opposing sound obsequoius. Teddy Roosevelt said, “It’s not the critic that counts….” That sums it up for me. However this place out it will all become a part of the Armstrong legacy. He will never be lost in obscurity and the sport has benefitted because he was here. Hopefully it will clean up because of the contraversy!

     
  49. Curby

    Sure it’s a fairy tale story, if not impossible to believe, but what hard evidence is there that lance doped? Is guess your guilty if enough people come forward and point the finger at you and say you’re guilty? While I wouldn’t bet he won 7 tours clean, he’s also never been caught. I’ve heard there is evidence, but I’ve not actually seen any evidence.

     
  50. Dennis C

    Curby, where there is smoke there is fire. There has been enough information leaked over the years to convince me that LA has doped. Further, when people go before the grand jury they tend to tell the truth because they don’t want to go to jail for purjury. By the way, are you still waiting for the Barack Obama long form birth certificate ?

     
  51. mike

    I’m still waiting on the response about the BMC and Trek comment and also the response from a few posts ago bitching about Bissel riding at the front of the nvgp,then Steve’s team doing the same at every local crit

     
  52. Wildcat

    Mike,

    If I were Steve I would feel like I could say or do whatever the hell I wanted on my blog and not be obligated to reply to anything. Hipocrit or not. Did you watch the Dave Chappell show? Steve is RICK JAMES.

    Likewise, so are you if you want to start a blog. I think they are free on blogspot.com if you want one. Then you can go on there and say or do anything you want.

    OR maybe you should just not come here to read his blog.

    Just sayin’.

    Now don’t hammer me about my comment because it won’t do any good due to the fact that I really won’t care and will go on with my life feeling great. Thanks and have a nice weekend!

     
  53. Jeff

    I have great memories of awesome moments in cycling. I just want to say thank you to all those riders regardless.

    The grand jury did not proceed against Lance and I realize that any form of reasoning can be used both for and against depending the spin. I don’t want the beauracrates determining that if A wins, but B and C cheated (doping) then A must have cheated (doped) also. I don’t want those guys rewriting cycling history. Some greats admited to doping and others maintain they beat them and rode clean. It’s a slippery slope.

    Oh pardon me if I sound like a sycophant…Steve I don’t care if we agree. Thanks for 35 years of great cycling!!

     
  54. Zach

    I think the grand jury case was a whole different deal. Whether or not (likely some) politics played into it, it was doomed to have a real difficulty.
    Doping is not a criminal offense, so the charges brought against him were while related, not specifically doping. Then theres the burden of proof which is substantially different in criminal versus USADA cases.
    Add those together and I can see where it seemed like it might be more than a longshot to convict him…of those charges, that were mearly stand ins. Even historically those are hard to prove against seemingly more obvious offenders.
    In re: to the whole issue, its plainly obvious to anyone who looks at things critically that he doped. When the winning time up Alp de Huez in 2011 gets you 40th in 2001 theres an issue (tactics, conditions, etc…notwithstanding).
    Sports are inherently dirty, as is life.

     
  55. anon

    also
    teammate brian was caught using epo when he was
    running. not the cycling brian jenson who was
    caught. your teammate as a runner.

     
  56. Craig K

    Dennis C, you’re a sad fellow. Fact is, I’m a Licensed Professional Counselor with a Masters Degree in Psychology and 20+ years experience. I have just a but more familiarity with the DSM and Personality Disorders (such as you!) than could be had by waiting in my room. BTW – the correct spelling is “Perjury”.

     
  57. Dennis C

    Craig, didn’t anyone teach you that it is unethical to try to diagnose someone via the media? Unless you had actual counseling sessions with LA, and LA signed an express written waiver to disclose his medical information to the public, you should shut up. You should seek professional counseling for yourself . You are an absolute disgrace. By the way, I know how to spell perjury. I am a really bad typist.

     
  58. H Luce

    Dennis C, that’s a bunch of pompous overblown nonsense. People – including professional psychologists – speculate and diagnose psychological symptoms and behaviors in famous people all the time, without forming a doctor-patient relationship. It’s not actionable, either, since the person doing the speculation has no personal knowledge and cannot be said to have the intent to maliciously misrepresent the truth of the matter, and the person who is the object of the speculation is a “public person” and has thrust himself into the public sphere.

     
  59. Craig K

    Sorry about that Dennis C, I guess your PhD in “Everything” trumps all. Please, please, please reconsider your statement. I don’t know if I’ll ever get over it, and I really do need to be able to sleep at night. I’m so worried that can’t happen now! Thanks so much for setting me straight! Now, you go back to your room and resume your analysis of LA’s penis.

     
  60. Dennis C

    Agreed, it is not actionable. Celebrities really can’t sue today except in very rare circumstances. It is believed to be unethical by many professionals and others. Young people today do not know what ethics are or are about and this is very unfortunate. I guess you and Craig are two frustrated cyclists who never made it. Please get over your disappointment and move on with your lives. Please accept that you just were not good enough, don’t blame LA for your lack of talent. Craig, you sound rather prissy. Are you gay ? I have absolutely no problem with gays and I support gay rights and gay marriage, but I was wondering.

     
  61. H Luce

    I’ve raced once in my life, never had a USCF license. While doing grad school in Florida I did training rides with a local club to get in shape and stay that way, and it just happened that John Lieswyn, Jeannie Golay, and a couple of other riders whom you might have heard of were in that club. The reason I’m not a racer is that my dissertation advisor gave me a choice: either do the PhD or race, and I chose the PhD. That was about the time that PEDs started coming in here, so that you weren’t competitive if you didn’t use them, so I decided to stick with the PhD and not put a lot of effort into riding, just do it for fun… I’ve known Steve since high school, and in my not so very humble opinion, he was cheated out of fame and fortune in racing by the dopers who were the top riders. I think if it had been a fair contest with no one doping, Steve would be in the position that Lance is in now.

     
  62. Gigi

    Wow, does anyone really know if he is clean or not? He has not ever been proven to be doping, and in this country I thought it was innocent until PROVEN guilty. Does the Anti-doping committee really have the authority to make the call they did in the case of LA? Do we really want that committee to make that call? Don’t we want “The Tour de France ” to make that call?

     
  63. H Luce

    Certainly, in a criminal proceeding, the standard for guilt is “Beyond A Reasonable Doubt.” LA doesn’t have to give testimony against himself, he has the right to remain silent … but that’s for a criminal proceeding. The USADA proceeding against LA is, I think, a civil proceeding, where LA has entered into a contract where he promises not to cheat and to give samples of bodily fluids for drug testing in exchange for a racing license. In a civil proceeding, the standard of proof is very much lower than in a criminal proceeding, namely if LA is thought to be “more likely than not” to be using PEDs, where only a “preponderance of the evidence” admitted by the court (or arbitration board) tends to show that he’s guilty of doping, then the ruling of the court (or board) must go against him. Sworn statements are good evidence, as is testimony under oath; circumstantial evidence is good enough for a conviction in a civil as well as a criminal case. If there are 10 riders or people on his team who saw LA use PEDs, then that’s probably enough to do the trick. Sure, you can bring the character of the witnesses into evidence, but that’s probably not going to be persuasive even if the prosecutor makes a deal with the witnesses to lower their sentences. People have been convicted of murder on the basis of conversations with jailhouse snitches – I’ll bet at least some of the witnesses against LA are not felons…

     
  64. Dennis C

    The interesting thing will be how the testimony given before the grand jury changes before a panel of arbitrators. I do not believe that any of the witnesses will repudiate or dramatically change their testimonies, but I think some testimonies will go from black to gray. In other words, the case against LA will be seriously weakened. Some of the grand jury witnesses may not show up at the arbitration hearing i.e. George Hincapie . I disagree that sworn statements are good evidence. In theory yes, but my very extensive experience with arbitrators is that the arbitrators want to see the witnesses tested by examination and cross examination. Sworn statements tend to be given little weight. Many of these witnesses are going to be torn to shreds. Tyler Hamilton and Floyd Landis will be destroyed. If Betsy and Frankie Andreu testify, the LA Attorneys will have little difficulty proving their personal amity against LA. Betsy Andreu in particular has been paranoid about LA for years, and the attorneys will have a field day with her. All of the cyclists testifying have been asked by the media numerous times, did you doped. They answered negatively. At the end of the day, the USADA will be lucky to get a two year suspension for LA. There are serious due process and disparate treatment issues with this case. LA haters be prepared to be disappointed.

     

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