I am pretty surprised about how many people are leaving comments about what a waste of time and money it is to pursue charges against Lance. I don’t really get it. It’s not like Lance isn’t competing in the highest levels of an endurance sport currently, ie. triathlons.
I do understand this is a divisive subject. I was wondering if these same people , that are dismissing Lance’s “indiscretions”, have the same views of Johan Bryeneel’s situation. He is obviously very involved in the sport of cycling at the highest level. Do you all think that this is also a waste of time, energy and money by USADA? Notice the word present in the last line?
Charges against Bruyneel
Specifically, Bruyneel is charged with:
— The possession of prohibited substance and/or methods.
— Trafficking of those prohibited substances and methods.
— The administration or attempted administration of those prohibited substances and methods.
— “Assisting, encourage, aiding, abetting covering up and other complicity” involving anti-doping violations.
— Aggravating circumstances which would justify a longer period of ineligibility than the standard sanction.
As a summary of his actions, the letter said that numerous riders will testify that “he gave to them and/or encouraged them to use doping products and/or prohibited methods.” In addition, witnesses “will also testify that Bruyneel worked actively to conceal rule violations by himself and others throughout the period from 1999 through the present.”
Don’t get the Livestrong zombies fired up with this comment. If Armstrong bestows sainthood on Bruyneel, than it’s all just a part of the Landis-Hamilton-Betsy-Frankie-the houseboy-the masseuse-Nowtizky conspiracy to discredit LA
As time passes, dudes like Floyd, Tyler and even Matt DeCanio are probably beginning to feel some level of vindication for telling their stories.
To those saying that the past is the past and leave him alone, etc etc…. It really isn’t in the past. Johan still is deep in the top levels of cycling, Lance is still competing and winning, and I’m willing to bet the others named in the document released are still involved at some level with cycling these days.
I find it funny that the only reason this is brought up again is because he raced in the Tour in 2009 and 2010. If you read some of the articles out there, there is an 8 year window that they have to act on evidence, so if it wasn’t for that, we wouldn’t be going another round with this. I hope for the sport of cycling that he didn’t do anything and that this can be put to rest once and for all.
I’m curious why does Bruyneel continue to Direct Leopard Trek if he is also under investigation, shouldn’t they suspend him also?
It was time to move on long ago from this obsession of trying to “get Lance”. There are real drug problems in cycling and especially in other sports that have (wisely?) not made such an effort to clean house. That’s where our tax money should be spent.
If they had anything in 2009/10… then why not bust him then?… And even those who suspect he was involved back in 1999-05, do you really think he’d be meddling again in 09/10 knowing that several drug-testing officials would be salivating at the thought of limitless out-of-competition tests on their #1 target?
I’m all for very strict testing. But 90 days later, that’s IT. Either busted or poured down the drain.
As someone who was 2nd at 2 world pro championships I can speak with some authority when I say that if USADA came to me now with evidence I was cheated, and that I’d be retroactively elevated to World Champion, I’d honestly tell them to pour it away.
Shawn-I call BS.
agree with John K.. to let Lance and JB slide is condoning the abuse.. all must go down.. if not it will always be a doper’s sport. there is so much guilt by association i just wonder what Sagan, Gilbert and Boonen are on that is ahead of the testing.
When the sh*t hit the fan yesterday I had to cheer. I am a long time cyclist/ former racer who was dx’d Stage II Testicular Cancer in Sept of 99′, shortly there after, I started to drink the Live Strong Kool-aid. It was hard for me to accept at first having many relatives touched by Cancer who he has inspired. My extended family started to watch and understand cycling, something I thought was really cool, but they dropped it like a hot potato when the constant stories of allegations and busts began to unfold. The problem I have mostly is the lying. I am all for second chances. Had these guys come clean along time ago, the sport would be in a far better place by now I feel. I do feel sorts bad for all the people he’s duped, but mostly I feel badly for the sport of bike racing which is in a huge hole now.
No yelllow bracelets for me thanks!!
How about they spend there energy and finances on the FUTURE of the sport. I believe its cleaner then it used to be, but it still needs more done. Going back and reliving this over and over is so freaking old! Its time to move on. Everyone has an opinion about this subject but in my eyes every time the “Lance” thing pops back up on the grid, it just damages our sport. We need to GROW the sport and that can only be done if we move on and put more measures in place to keep cheating from happening.
Honestly for me, the “Bryuneel” issue (as well as Carmichael, Ferrari, and other supposed “pushers”) is the real problem. Racers are of course wanting to do their best and be at the top of their game. Unless a young person is very smart and strong will and principled, then it’s the coaches and doctors who will be followed blindly every time. Yeah, Lance doped, and yeah, it was a conscious move by him, but it has been a long time since those samples were taken. Much longer time since the last coach found some androgen to give to his best rider. There’s your problem.
I’m guessing that if LA, Bryuneel, et al are finally busted after this latest allegation, the sport will probably be washed anew for good. I cannot begin to imagine what their world was/is like, but they made their beds and now they will hopefully lie in them, even after all these years later…
I’ve never been anti-Lance but i’ve never been pro-Lance just because it looks cool either. I’ll give everybody the benefit of the doubt and let the evidence ( or lack of) fall where if may and dictate riders careers according/appropriately. I think there is a lot of evidence about to come out that we hadn’t heard about yet or maybe it was rumored but never actually came out. A lot of people gave testimony in those Grand Jury proceedings that we haven’t even heard about yet. Too many people are saying the same thing about him but only Lance is saying anything about Lance. Right, wrong, or indifferent, this will be a huge deal.
Hey, Steve. I love your blog. You are an inspiration to me. I’m an old fart trying to stay pretty fit on a bike. I remember watching you race as a junior in the late 70s, early 80s; followed you on and off ever since. Sometimes I think you go off on goofy tangents, such as when you whine about cigar smoke and grill smoke at crits, but whatever. Every day I look forward to whatever little gems you come up with.
Regarding Bruyneel, Lance, and the other frauds — nail ’em, please!
Thanks for being a voice of moderation, ST. Keep it up.
If you guys are hopeful 2012 is better, then prepare to be disappointed.
The doping goes all the way into the UCI and their elaborate and intentionally weak bio-passport scheme which amounts to little more than “Don’t kill yourself.”
Let’s clean it up! Back test all samples 3-5 years and watch the carnage. CAS will be busy for a decade if they actually processed old samples.
Get the UCI out of the anti-doping administration entirely. Let them be a rider advocate with WADA handling initiating positives.
It’s hard to say, but this entire thing with the USADA seems slightly petty.
I’m not saying that Armstrong is completely clean, but the idea of trying to yank all of his victories, back to 1999 is hilarious.
all these silly USADA people and their unhealthy obsession with truth and justice… don’t they know this is America?
Johan is flashing the length of their prison sentances – seven years.
They are also going after Jose Pepe Marti, Michele Ferrari, Luis Garcia del Moral and Pedro Ceyala, hopefully they can get most of Postal’s doping ring. Hopefully Bruyneel and Ceyala cannot be at the Tour for RadioShack.
This is good.
You guys really make me laugh. You are all basically saying, that Lance, who was better than all of the guys he raced against, should have let himself get beat, to protect his moral character, and say that he didn’t cheat. European cycling culture, has meant cheating, for years now. Not saying it’s right, but that’s what went on over there. I never really suspected Lance was clean, but having known him since he was a kid, I did know he was better. If cycling had been clean, Lance would have been clean. You people live in some sort of fantasy world. You think Lance should have stood his ground, because Americans are better, more moral people. And then he could sleep at night, knowing he was good. Open your eyes, the President of the United States, is getting blow jobs in the White House. Half you guys have probably screwed around on your wives or girlfriends. Morality is either dead, or on life support. It’s stupid to ask Lance to be the better man, and lose at the sport he chose for his profession. He did not get caught at the time, and to hound him now, is just sour grapes, by a bunch of pathetic losers, who like to see people suffer, because they suck. Get over it, and try to make sure that no other kids, have such a hard decision to make.
The curious thing is that the teams this crew were involved with never seemed to have any dirty riders, but when many of these folks departed for other teams, they got caught (Floyd, Alberto, Tyler, Vino, et al). Coincidence? Nuh uh.
no doubt LA doped,so did every GC hopeful.Doping will always be ahead of catching.
For the good of the sport,riders should be tested and results next day pass or fail-done.This digging up old result is only going to ruin the sport.Could you imagine the NFL saying a team didnt win and change the outcome of the SUPERBOWL 10years later!!!no its just stupid
Yeah, what Roberto said. And joe. Goddamit this stuff needs to go away or the sport will finally be ruined.
Pro cycling’s image is already ruined, guys…and only a bloodbath can have any effect on the future of the sport. Big guys need to go down big time, pay BIG fines, maybe jail. That is what will help the future of cycling, not sweeping lies and cheating under the rug. Maybe we can’t eliminate drugs, but we must try to keep the lid on doping. We owe it to the memory of all those who were killed by drugs.
A non-cycling friend of mine, after explaining to him the latest “Lance situation”, suggested an out-of-the-box idea: Why doesn’t cycling structure their categories like the sport of auto racing – “modified” and “stock” categories – so that the “modified” riders can use whatever enhancing potions they wish, and the “stock” riders race clean?
I suspect that we all agree that it is entirely appropriate to prosecute Jerry Sandusky for incidents that occurred 10 years ago, or to sue priests/parishes for abuse that occurred 40 years ago. Why is it any different in the Armstrong case?
For one, because the statute of limitations hasn’t expired, on what Jerry Sandusky did. Second, nobody is physically and mentally scarred for life, because of what Lance did or didn’t do. Let’s face it, nobody has solidly proven that Lance cheated. The proof that it should take in court, hasn’t been seen to this point.
I disagree, Roberto. The victims of the cheating are those with pro talent but who won’t cheat. NO ONE seems to care about them. The really sad thing is that I read an great article last year by one of Lance’s former teammates who was essentially shown the door because he would not play the doping game. He is out of cycling, living in Hawaii (I think) . . . . and I CAN’T EVEN REMEMBER HIS NAME.
But HEY, I’m sure it’s easy having a passion to utilize talent from God in a given profession, then having to walk away. That wouldn’t leave a mark, would it?
(Disclaimer: I do not mean to equate cheaters and their victims with child molesters and THEIR victims.)
Yes Roberto,
**LOTS** of talented athletes you’ve never heard of and maybe one or two you have simply walked away when they discovered the doping culture is practically a requirement to race bicycles at an elite level.
Morality is alive and with it comes the principal that no one is excepted under the Rule of Law.
What’s the point of any game if all the players don’t abide by the rules? Which is why there should be a crisis in confidence with the UCI. Armstrong’s TdS positive cover-up makes two very well known positive cover-ups at the federation. (Contador is the other. German media broke the story anyway.)
Michael S,
You can’t do what body building does, which is has a “natural” category and a “geared” category. The “geared” category attracts all the attention and money.
The consequences of applying that to cycling have already come to pass and it amounts to uncontrolled experimentation on humans. Chris Carmichael doped minors (Armstrong was on that team) and then some of those riders as young adults have mysterious and expensive illnesses.
That might cut a little close to Steve, but between Rene Wenzel and Carmichael, it was a pretty awful scene. http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500164_162-284958.html
@Roberto @Joe
I think you are missing the point. This is not about nailing someone who chose to dope. This is about nailing a _group_ of guys who actively kept the culture of doping going via intimidation, bribes etc.
You say he had no choice given the times. Perhaps. But it does not follow that he was “forced” to help refine the techniques or the he was “forced” to lend his weight to the intimidation of other riders.
In any case, I am less interested in Lance then Johan, Ferrari etc.. Cycling culture cannot and will not change until these guys go!
Pro talent, just exactly what is that. I had pro talent, but I could have taken everything known to man, and never won a grand tour. I know of nobody with grand tour winning talent, that walked away. Ullrich, Pantani, Hinault, Roche, Indurain, Lemond, none walked away, and the list could go on for pages. Once again i’m not saying it was right, but it was the culture. I don’t know exactly when it started, but I suspect it was before I was born, and that’s quite some time. All Lance did, was beat them at their own game, and that’s why they’re pissed. You think destroying Lance, is going to fix cycling, think again. Somebody will always try and cheat to win, and you can’t stop it. Cycling is what it is, and either decide you’re a cycling fan, love it and embrace it, or get the F*** out. It’s your choice. Despite it’s faults, I choose to love it, do it, and watch it. But that’s just me.
I don’t think it is about lance so much as it is about if we create a culture that functions like a mob what are we accomplishing? If lance goes down, then it says it doesn’t matter how high up you are, how connected you are, eventually, they will get you if you cheat and you will be accountable. part of the allure I think is that there is a belief that if you have enough resources then you could probably get away with it. I am with the guys that say we asterisk the whole damn past twenty years as the doping era. I also think we give lifetime bans. I choose to love it, embrace it, and do it, too Roberto, and in 25 years have never been close to pro, but do feel a little pissed and cheated to find out even the effin masters racers are dirty. Just because it is how it is doesn’t mean we shouldn’t aspire to make it better.
If all of the top riders of the last 20 years were dirty, and other riders who chose not to dope were shut out, then those honest riders were cheated out of a legacy and pre-eminence in a sport that was rightfully theirs. To ratify and excuse cheating, by “moving forward” – in the same way Obama “moved forward” in refusing to investigate the illegal actions of Bush and Cheney – is the ultimate obscenity in cycling as a sport.